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V4 Beam Production

This topic contains 19 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Ruffin 1 month ago.

4
Tim Slab timslab

V4 Beam Production

29/01/2019 at 13:41

Hello!
We’ve been cranking hard at the Precious Plastic HQ with the development of v4..
The focus for the beginning of the year is on exploring and developing techniques for the Extrusion machine. This topic will be focused on Beam Production, with all the successes, failures and set backs along the way.

Stay tuned for further topics as the development continues..

-Machine Development 
-Beam Production (You are here)
-Extrusion Moulds
-Tubes and Profiles

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In reply to: V4 Beam Production

warrior
29/01/2019 at 13:47
3

Test: Polystyrene Beams

Objective: Create transparent beams and explore the control of colour with PS.

Process:
@tafnstuff and I tried various beam moulds attached to the extrusion machine. The machine is in good state and using it is very friendly. We screw on each mould, fill the hopper and turn the motor on. The machine was set to 240 C and motor speed varied between 210~250 rpm. Demoulding the beams can sometimes be very hard with PS as it doesn’t shrink as much as PP or PE.

Conclusions:
-PS can remain transparent with the extrusion process.
-Quality of finish is high.
-Beams are very hard. (Sound like a peice of rock and take long to cut through)
-One beam developed a large cavity and was completely hollow. We think this could be from the thin gold flakes (coffee cup lids) shrinking rapidly and drawing to the outer layer of black.

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In reply to: V4 Beam Production

starter
29/01/2019 at 17:28
2

nice info ! thanks for sharing. melting these sliced beam tiles down to a plate looks really promising! if you can maintain transparency enough, it’s very likely that you could do really nice lamps with it.

In reply to: V4 Beam Production

warrior
30/01/2019 at 13:11
2

Test: Polypropylene Beams

Objective: Create large, strong beams

Process:
Shred large flakes into smaller bits. The machine was set to 200 C and the motor speed was varied. For most tests, I used a wooden block attached to a longer piece of wood (plunger). I hung a 1kg bucket onto the end of this plunger to create some relatively consistent pressure to the extruding beam.

Conclusions:
-Smoother surfaces can be obtained by using a weighted plunger.
-Smoother surfaces can also be obtained with a warm mould.
-Smaller granules work better than large.
-The end of a beam seems to have better consistency and surface. Possibly due to the heat of mould and surrounding plastic.

 

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In reply to: V4 Beam Production

warrior
30/01/2019 at 13:54
2

Test: PP Beam consistency and speed

Objective: Discover the optimal machine settings

Process:
There is an image of this beam above, and I went through the same process however did not use any plunger/resistance and the mould was cold (4 C). I set the machine to a constant temperature of 200 C and ramped up the rpm and changed colour every 10 minutes. Starting with [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] and [email protected]

Conclusions:
-Initial section of beam was very rough, did not fill mould cavity or fully melt.
-Consistency improved with length. Plastic has more time to melt inside the beam core.
-There was a hollow channel at the end of the beam. Possibly from letting machine run with no plastic.
-With a cold mould, it may be better to start off  even slower and ramp up the speeds thereafter.

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In reply to: V4 Beam Production

warrior
30/01/2019 at 16:56
2

Test: Polyethylene Beams

Objective: Create stronger beams. I’ve found PE to be an elusive material for the hand powered machines due to it’s viscosity even in molten state. These experiments were to learn about ease of production and the differences between PP and PE beams.

Process:
Shred larger flakes into smaller bits. The machine was set to 220 C and speeds were adjusted according to the rising and falling barrel temperatures. The plunger was weighted with 1kg.

Conclusions:
-PE can be used to make strong beam.
-After enough time, demoulding is easy.
-Surfaces feel more slippery/waxy than PP or PS.

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In reply to: V4 Beam Production

warrior
30/01/2019 at 18:46
3

Test: Large PE Beams

Objective: Make the biggest PE beam possible.

Process:
We had some large rectangle and square tubes in the workshop onto which we welded angle iron brackets for connecting to the extruder. It is helpful to clean the inside of the tube before use (image 3). The process of extrusion follows the same steps as before. Machine set to 220 C and speed varied according to the temperature of the barrel. A 1kg bucket was used for resistance on the plunger.

Findings:
-The rectangular tube mould broke while extruding. This happened when the resistance of the plunger rose as the weight moved further away from the mould. The temperatures spiked to 270 C and the mould bulged (image 2). Closeup of the swollen area of beam also pictured in image 2.
-The square shape worked well too. You can see the shape of the nozzle and initial plastic section in image 3.
-Cooling takes far longer with such large shapes.
-There is a fine line between too much pressure and too little. Only some sections took the shape of the mould, others remained round/organic.
-Temperature on average was 30~40 C hotter than the machine was set.

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In reply to: V4 Beam Production

helper
05/02/2019 at 15:49
4

I’ve had too many bad experiences with extruding pe and ps … that’s why I am trying to develop simple ways of making beams. .. but always looking for getting more information and ideas from other colleagues. What do you think ?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsnsitKldyU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhl5xJYnlps

In reply to: V4 Beam Production

warrior
05/02/2019 at 18:10
2

Yo @wolfgang, nice videos! Thanks for sharing your process. Great to see the creative use of “low tech” tools. Quite a lot of hands on work but the results are very surprising, at first I didn’t think they would be strong. A whole new take on making beams.. really interesting!

Looking forward to seeing how your tests go with the hot sand and use of solar power

In reply to: V4 Beam Production

warrior
05/02/2019 at 19:27
2

@wolfgang haha very nice video, VERY inspiring for low-tech solution !
i’ll scare you with the one i’ll post tomorrow hahaha (i can’t do as long beams atm though :p)

In reply to: V4 Beam Production

warrior
12/02/2019 at 19:22
3

https://youtu.be/WwBgRuCpYNc

https://youtu.be/JP2Mmf7etGU

Sorry tried to emb it to the forum but didn’t manage to :((

 

In reply to: V4 Beam Production

warrior
14/02/2019 at 12:45
2

Oh man.. thanks for sharing @imuh.. I love seeing all these techniques emerging. That lump of plastic dough looks really nice to work with. I’ve been talking with Johe and he explained you used a lot of cellophane and a bit of bottle caps? Nice surface finish too

In reply to: V4 Beam Production

helper
25/02/2019 at 19:06
1

Hello, any tips about PS demount?
Some times I couldn’t extract beam from metal tube, even with brute force.
Do you use any mould release or oil inside tube?

In reply to: V4 Beam Production

warrior
26/02/2019 at 12:54
3

Hey @copypastestdfor releasing the PS beams we gave the mould at least 30mins to cool. The beams we did make were also not too long.

Circular / square shapes seem to cool more uniformly and are easier to release than the rectangular shapes. So far we’ve had no need for release agent in beam moulds

In reply to: V4 Beam Production

helper
27/02/2019 at 19:08
4

In description you mention that motor speed varied between 210~250 rpm – it is not clear for me. This speed of motor, or speed of screw after gearbox? What ratio of gearbox do you have in your machine?

Do you have heaters on the mold, or are all your heaters mounted on the side just on the extruder side?

In my case, at some point the plastic gets stuck in the pipe – and the only working way to push it forward is to use heatgun (which in turn is extremely inefficient).

I am satisfied with the quality of my plastic beams (they are strong and smooth) but the process if really difficult takes a long time.
And I’ve never been able to make a bar longer than 50 cm.

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In reply to: V4 Beam Production

warrior
11/04/2019 at 15:53
1

Hey @copypastestd, thanks for you questions.

The speed mentioned is the speed of the screw itself, I’ll have to find out what the exact reduction is.

The only heaters are those on the extruder itself. To get a hot mould, I’ve been extruding a beam, demoulding asap and then using the mould again while it’s still hot.

What material have you been using and what temperatures? Your beams look smooth and consistent.

Perhaps the issue of not being able to extrude longer than 50cm is that plastic is not warm enough to maintain the flow or your machine is unable to maintain the pressure

In reply to: V4 Beam Production

warrior
17/04/2019 at 17:43
5

Here’s an inside look at how a beam is born 🙂

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In reply to: V4 Beam Production

10/07/2019 at 20:10
0

@timslab; you have any recommendation for the v4 screw parameters (pitch, diameter ,… ) ? I do the next days new footage on how to make extrusions screws as part of the ‘PP CE Academy v4.1 program’ (advanced level); also adding outstanding wood auger hacks to add compression in v3.1 CE. Happy to have some input. Currently I know only of 3-4 Kw 3phase at ~1:40 and a screw diameter of around 3-4 cm. target beams are 5×5 or 8×4 if possible.

thanks in advance

In reply to: V4 Beam Production

warrior
11/07/2019 at 09:22
0

Hey @pex12, a PP academy sounds great.. master class 😎. We’ve made some adaptations and improvements (testing coming soon) to the screw for the v4 extruder.. I haven’t been too involved with the engineering design aspect so I’d ask @jovinc and @peter-bas about the exact specs for the screw

In reply to: V4 Beam Production

new
14/07/2019 at 15:35
0

A few quick questions, if you don’t mind.

Any updates on board quality? I’m curious about the feasibility of making a chair pattern like this one, with no board larger than a meter (the back slats are the largest at almost exactly a meter in this design).

What materials are you recycling for your polystyrene beam? Those look the best in the thread, but I thought PS was notoriously toxic when recycled.

I would’ve expected the best results with HDPE, if only because that seems the material of choice for production of boards at scale, like these recycled chairs. Have you had any luck improving the rectangular mold since this update? Are the boards you are making reasonably strong?

Just curiousity: Why is there the circle of color in the middle of the PE beams? That would suggest the mix isn’t very homogenous, but what causes the separation?

Also wondered what kind of plastic Dave was using in his video for beam extrusion here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNGuuSKE1pY

His board around 5:35 (screenshot attached) looks extremely nice. What material is that using? His beams, especially that one, looks, at a glance, more uniform than the ones here, but it’s hard to see them all closely.

Is there an ETA for the v4 extrusion plans?

Thanks for all the work, and keep it up!

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