This topic contains 86 replies, has 27 voices, and was last updated by Anonymous 2 years ago.
Hello Precious Plastic community! I’m new here. I apologize up front for the big piece of text 🙂
Who am I?
I’m a young Dutch guy from the Eindhoven region with a love for recycling systems. I recently graduated from Business University and saw my freedom as a chance to travel around Southeast Asia. This journey made me realize how many people do not have access to a system to properly discard and recycle waste, and what the impact of this is worldwide.
According to a study published in the peer-reviewed journal Science Advances, about 8.3 billion metric tons of plastic have been produced since the 1950s. 6.3 billion metric tons of this has become plastic waste and of that, only 9% has ever been recycled. The sheer numbers are simply terrifying. Especially when you think that all this plastic waste ends up in the air (through burning), in/on the ground, or in the water. Coupled with population growth and increased production levels, the world needs to realize that we simply cannot continue on this path. We need to either replace plastic with more biodegradable materials, or close the waste circle.
While I was traveling I came up with all these ideas for closing the waste stream. I also started looking online. It made me very happy to find Dave’s Precious Plastic project. Somebody is already working to solve this problem in an awesome, open-sourced way. Moreover, this guy is from close to my own home town! I thought to myself: “Great! So what can I do to help him?”
I don’t really have the technical knowledge needed for machine building or the chemistry knowledge to find new applications for discarded plastic. But I think precious plastic already has many people with these skillsets..
So what does precious plastic need?
Users! In order for Precious Plastic to make a significant impact, we need many people worldwide to use this awesome system! And this is a field where I do have skills. In business school I basically learned how to make a significant global impact in our contemporary capitalist system.What Precious Plastic needs is a good Business Plan.
“But wait, there already is a Business Plan!?”
That’s true, there is funding from donations, patreon and multiple international foundations. Furthermore, people with a recycling workshop now have the online Bazar to sell their products. So that’s great! But that’s not what I mean. We need to give people the knowledge and tools to make their workspace profitable. Just like the precious plastic website gives people the technical knowledge to build the workspace, machines and products, it should also give people the business knowledge to make their workspace successful.
“Profit!? Sounds so capitalistic…”
I know that Precious Plastic is not like a traditional company where it’s all about earning profit. However, in order for the project to grow, each workspace needs it’s economic viability. An organization that mainly depends on donations and volunteers just doesn’t grow fast enough. When a workspace is able to make substantial profit this money can be used to increase awareness, scale up production or give something back to the community that puts hard work into making this project work. Simply put: profit serves to be reinvested in the project to have a growing impact. This is called Sustainable Business.
What would I like to do?
Together with a dedicated team, I would like to set up an all-round, openly available business plan that the Precious Plastic community can use to start increasing their local impact. I believe that business and operations are crucial points of knowledge that all workspaces need. The problem is of course, that every workspace is in a different situation. Different situations mean different business plans. The challenge is to create one that is like a template. A business plan containing general information that can be used by everyone to suit their local needs. This can then be incorporated into precious plastic version 4.
What this plan will look like
The rollout of this plan will have to happen on two levels. Globally and locally. On a global scale Precious Plastic needs to evolve by providing the new information through a book or web app. Furthermore, Precious Plastic needs partnerships to grow. An example of a mutually beneficial business partnership would be Ikea. Ikea could sell locally made precious plastic items in their stores worldwide. For precious plastic this would increase awareness and sales and for Ikea it would be a good CSR opportunity.
On a local scale there will be three template business plans. One for workspaces, machine builders and people that want to get started. For each of these a different business template is needed, but at the same time they are also all connected. Machine builders serve as a hub, from where all the workspaces can be supplied with machines and moulds but potentially also many other things needed to set up and operate a workspace.
The spokes of this system are the workspaces. The workspaces need to set up an infrastructure for collecting plastic, spread awareness, find retailers, get workers and volunteers etc. etc.. Of course every local shop already has its own ways and ideas, so the business plan mainly serves as a guideline, asking people whether they’ve taken everything in account and providing them with the tools to do finance, accounting, marketing, supply chain etc. An example of a great thing that precious plastic global can offer to workspaces are poster designs that workspaces can print hang around the community to raise awareness.
Finally, people that want to get started get a guide to setting up their workspace, not only in a technical sense, but also from a business perspective. Furthermore, they should be brought into contact with their local machine builder where they can buy the materials they need. Since Precious Plastic is a tight, high trust community it would be possible for machine builders to do local sales on a loan. The machine builder will provide moulds and machines to the workspace while keeping ownership. The workspace then can start turning profit and pays the moulds and machines back within an agreed upon time. If the workspace pays the machine builder back completely (this can be done at once or in installments) the workspace gets the ownership over the machines. If the workspace does not manage to raise enough funds within the set time the machine builder can come to an agreement with the workspace to extend the payback time or to take back the machines. The advantage for the machine builder is that he will be able to set up more workspaces, and sell more machines, since people do not need high initial funds to set up a workspace. On the other hand it will be easier to set up a workspace and the community as a whole will grow quicker. Of course this can only happen when there is high trust between the machine builder and workspace and if the machine builder is financially able to sell machines on a loan.
These are just a couple of ideas but an overall structure is needed covering everything from finance to marketing to human resources and value chain management. The overall goal would be to get this global community to work in unison and for the movement to grow into making a significant worldwide impact.
How would I like to do this
These are just a few ideas for things that could be incorporated in a business plan. However, it is far from being a complete business strategy. For this, I would first like to meet with Dave in his workspace to talk about the business side of precious plastic and his vision for the future (if you are reading this Dave, hit me up!). After that I will need a team of people that each focus on a specific aspect of this plan to write a beta version. Then, each of the team members, including me, would have to go volunteer at a few workspaces all over the world to find challenges, flaws and new ideas. After that the plan can be updated into its final form and published online for the whole world to use.
I am really excited to help precious plastic grow their global impact and I’m totally willing to put my own time and effort into this project because I can learn so much and have such a positive impact. Also, I’m sure I can find like-minded people in the community that could help me make this idea a reality. I would really like to hear what you guys think and I’m always open for ideas and suggestions.
Sounds great, gather a team and drop by! 🙂
FYI. Precious Plastic doesn’t necessary needs a business plan, we can kinda sustain ourselves. But we would love to provide it for each member of the community. Love it if people that start a workspace can make a living out of it! If we can make that process easier i’m in
Since Guenter joined the community with his first account, he started posting useful information and pictures of his very professional looking machines, and everybody appreciated it and praised him for his work. Suddenly, his posts got offensive and he started threatening the community and @davehakkens himself. We asked him to share his findings, and to help us improve the project by proposing upgrades, new ideas, and which security features could we implement in the next release of precious plastic, but he never toned down his offensive/attacking posts, calling our community “eco wannabes”, liars, cowards, scammers, and never agreed to cooperate like a civilized person.
Dave offered him to have a 1-1 videocall to talk, listen to his ideas and know which corrections he wanted for the forum, but he just keep on bashing against everyone.
I do know that the cost estimations for the machines are far from accurate, but estimating a cost for the machines is impossible on a global scale. For Dave, the machines were cheap because he had all tools and resources already available, for some other people, finding a junk yard with second hand motors is an impossible task and they have to get them brand new. On my case, I was able to score a 5HP motoreducer for $600 that normally sells for over $2000 in stores, so this gives you an idea of how hard it is to tell people “you can build a shredder for XXX amount of money”.
I’m sorry to hear that Guenter spent so much money on his machines, and I’m sorry to hear that the quality of the shredder didn’t meet his expectations, but no one here in the community is an expert on anything, we are just collaborating with our experience and trying to design a product that works without breaking the bank. At the end of the day, it is Guenters fault to invest so much money without properly quotating the costs of all the parts involved in his region. I’m not an accountant, but I do not that before I invest in something, I need to know how much will it cost me and if I will ever get a return of the investment.
You seem like a reasonable person, but personally, I will not allow your friend Guenter in the community anymore. He was given enough time and patience to help us improve our project, but the community is tired of his negativity and lack of cooperation to reach a common goal.
About collecting, sorting and shredding… maybe we can do some good partnerships!
David speaks really
slowly well on this TED talk about his project, the Plastic Bank. I’m quite impressed with the idea and I feel glad they are starting here in Brazil, I will definitely dig into it and get involved.
They created an open-sourced extruder for 3d printing filament and want people to start building it, buying Social Plastic and selling or using the filament produced by themselves. You can find the drawings of the extruder here.
Basically, they are pretty aware that they are selling Social Plastic to big companies (which are helping them take people out of the grips of ultra poverty and clean the environment!) that will keep producing single-use shit and rapidly trash those countries again.
So, they want people with plastic recycling machines to buy Social Plastic and make proper use of this great material. Do you know of anybody trying to do that that could help them? :thinking: haha
Connecting Precious Plastic to Plastic Bank is a great deal especially in the developing countries. However, the North has easier access to the machinery.
We can start thinking about pellets resellers, not only products resellers. The pellets resellers would buy (import) shredded plastic in bulk amounts from the Plastic Bank and resell it to Precious Plastic workspaces through their own country.
Moving plastic around may not be good because of CO2 emissions… but we are alleviating three other problems: we give ultra poor people a steady source of income, we remove garbage from the environment and we prevent plastic from getting back to the places it was collected by not creating crap.
Hey everyone! Thanks so much for the contributions! Big and small everyone has been a big help so far. I’m just writing a little update so you guys know what I have been up to in the meantime and what is coming up next.
So, first of all I have been gathering ideas. I structured my own ideas, gathered ideas from the community and brainstormed with several people around me. In the end I put all of this together and made a presentation. Then I went to Helmond to meet Dave in his workspace. It was really good for me to be able to see, touch and feel everything that I’ve been thinking about in the months before. Also talking to Dave was a huge reality check. As expected, some ideas sound great in practice but talking to someone who has a lot of experience with this makes you realise that they will probably not work. Together we filtered the ideas into things that can be incorporated in version 4, and things that I can work on right now. I’ll give you guys a selection of what we came up with:
For version 4:
– Increase information given about how to do business. This is already marked as coming soon on the website under ( start > extra )
– Setting up information hubs and local forums to strengthen local networks and answer questions.
– Scale up the network in some areas by adding people that specialize in one specific part of the process. Examples are: plastic collection points, sales points, or shredding facilities.
– Encouraging workspaces to partly outsource things like collecting plastic or selling products (part of the last step)
– Possibly help people with getting funding opportunities
– Introducing online workspace profiles with concrete data and communication possibilities. Possibly through a mobile app
Things I am working on right now:
– Writing a business chapter for the precious plastic starter manual. This is based around the business canvas, which will be included.
– Creating a calculator tool in excel which can be used to calculate things like expected break-even-time, or initial investment needed. This mainly serves to make sure people keep everything in consideration and to let them play around by entering different situations and seeing how the results change. An excel tool for bookkeeping should also be added later on.
This is where I will need your help again. Once I have written down all the information that should be added to the manual in the business chapter I need the community to have a thorough look at it, see what is relevant and what not. What should be added and what should be changed or left out.
Also, as of now I need someone with good excel skills to help me make the calculator and bookkeeping tools.
Thanks for taking part in this wonderful community! Hoping to hear from you.
Thanks for the replies everyone! I am incredibly happy to see that my idea has fallen on fertile ground. The next step is to make some work of it! For this we need a team. We need people with expertise on
– Finance & Accounting
– Operations & Product Strategy
– Value Chain
– Marketing & Branding
– Management & Human Resources
– Community & Shared Value
– Global Networks & Strategy
– App/Book Design
If you can help or if you just want to think along, please send me a personal message and I will provide you with an introduction sheet and a sign-up form. After you decide to sign up you will become part of the team and can help create the content we need to significantly increase the worldwide impact of precious plastic.
I hope to hear from you!
Interesting business model by Plastic collective Australia, they make a shruder and sell it with all services included.
Let’s do it in Italy!
That’s exactly how Guenter’s reasoning sounds like 🙂
Instead of partnering with Ikea, you could create a business plan for resellers. In place of investing in machines, they would invest in setting up a store and buying products from near workspaces as well as bridging special requests from clients to providers.
It means a new feature on the website (hellooo @katharinaelleke), the Precious Plastic platform would be the hub that @mc007 requests. There, users would be able to meet resellers and providers.
I like it because physical stores give greater exposure to Precious Plastic potential clients and avoid international shipping as the resellers buy their products from local workspaces. On the web, people just repeat themselves over and over, keep inside their own bubble and, in reality, they don’t actually choose what they are going to see when they go out shopping.
In fact, not everybody needs to recycle plastic to be part of it, as @davehakkens says on his videos.
Let me know what you think!
It would be FANTASTIC to have a business plan- completely agree that viability is critical.
Even better if there could be a version for Developing Country context where the waste issue can cause cholera and municipalities can’t even deal with waste let alone recycling. The added twist is that technology and energy are expensive, whereas labour is cheap and abundant (and in need of meaningful work). Letting communities see Waste has value would create an important shift in mindsets.
One tiny word, I’d encourage your business plan to be shorter than your post. Your enthusiasm is so great but realistically long text is a disincentive to action for busy people.
Let me know how I can help.
I must say I’m very impressed by your post. I am from Ireland and am investigating potential business ideas in the recycling area. I love this site and everything precious plastic is doing but the key thing for me too was that it needs to be converted into a viable business in order to really grow and have an impact.
I would love to chat to you more about the idea of creating a business plan and offer my help. I have previously started and ran by own retail/online sales business and also have several years of management consultancy experience.
If you want to chat more please give me a shout.
All the best
To everyone following this thread…. Here is the thing with open source development. Many people have opinions and ways how to do things different or what they think its better from their perspective. For instance on this topic, some want to include a global average, some price per region, some their own outcome and some no number at all.
The main reason we have a number in the first place is because people kept asking us (2 years ago) how much it took me to build the machines material wise so we put my number up there. Honestly we never found a good way to give people a real local estimate because there are just so many variables. throughout the years we noticed some make it for more, some for less.. really depends on the situation.
Now. We’re totally up for changing it into something else (whatever you guys think fits) Honestly i don’t care, in the end this number is here for the people (you) that want to get started. It wasn’t my plan at all to look into this tiny detail thing since we are going to rethink from scratch again in V4.0 ,but sure if everyone thinks its stupid we look into it.
HOWEVER! We are not going to do this based on one guys bad experience who just spams his opinion all over a community he just recently joined. If we would base decisions on these impulsive loud talking characters the project would be a chaos. So @siemenc I very much appreciate you taking the time to think about this. I know you have been following long and understand where we are. Let me know if you have a good solution or road ahead we should follow.
For anyone else but specially you @timhardex. Dont scream to get what you want but work on it, inspire us and show us the way. “offering help” doesn’t mean anything if you don’t put it into action. We are constantly figuring out how we can move forward and make (what we think) big steps with the minimal resources available. I’m aware this things means the world to you but we are just a small team. We cant help out everyone with everything all the time. So be prepared to organise the work and do the heavy lifting. Or sit back, simply share your feedback on hope we will change it in V4.
Sorry we can’t please everyone with all their wished and demands. Until now everyone is always been very helpful and constructive. Working together to make it better. Hope we can keep it that way…
@timhardex just get the f**k out of here!!!
Thanks for the replies everyone! Great to see the community agrees developing the business side is what can make precious plastic grow through the roof!
Indeed the concern from the beginning on was how to write something which is applicable to every workspace in every possible environment. This is why I use the business canvas. I adapted it especially for precious plastic workspaces (see image)
I agree that in order to have a profitable workspace, you need to have a seriously good product idea. One competitive advantage of precious plastic products is that they are good looking and long lasting. Still, I definitely urge everyone to spend a lot of effort on developing a proper value propsition before getting started. Thanks for opening a topic for this! I’m interested to see what the community will come up with.
I 100% agree that more specialization will allow the precious plastic network to greatly expand. When some people specialize in reselling products, or collecting and shredding plastic, the people in the workspace will have more time to experiment and make stuff. A webpage or app can indeed be used to facilitate this network in a peer-to-peer fashion. A prerequisite of this network building is that there are already enough workspaces in place to build the network around.
Thanks for the input! Great work. I agree that setting up any profitable small business is difficult and, like Mattia also mentioned; every situation is different. Precious plastic should definitely not tell people exactly what to do and when to do it. The idea is rather to challenge people to take all the important things in consideration, and make sure their plan is well thought through before they get started.
I hope I’ve answered all of your questions!
Keep em coming 😉
Hello @siemenb !
Indeed a very interested thread here 😉
If i can share my experience, i have my own company since 8 years now and there ARE certain things to get through before launching yourself in the adventure (profesionnally?)
You need to take in account all the different expenses (rent, salary,electricity etc..)
But the hardest is to know how the money will come in the business.
What kind of income are you going for?
Artistic : only brains sets the limits (what type of product? what technique? what type of plastic? who will buy? at what price?)
Functionnal : beams, 3D print filament or construction material (specific type of client,maybe engineering certification needed? bigger machines?)
Pure recycling : schredd & wash and resell (to other PP artists or functionnals? bigger compagnies? what price?)
How effecient are you going to be doing such or such specific task in your business such as plastic schredding, plastic washing, testing, making your products, then communicate around your products, sell your products (arrange all the logistics w/ the product delivery), get paid & pay yourself?
Now all this Precious Plastic community is much bigger than just a business model; it’s a world crisis we’re facing and indeed a certain economy can and i am sure WILL and IS rising through all of us.
As said earlier i have a company since a couple years; my challenge now is to make a complementary activity rise through Precious Plastic. Though i still have no machine yet (i have a modified compression system), i have started doing a LOT of research about plastics, and experimenting through my little system. It made me lead (as for today :p) to a sort of paving system.
So, i very positive results on plastics 2/4/5/6 (having issues with 1:PET and milk bottles HDPE) to do a paving system using 3 different Moulds. At the moment with the system i have, i can produce 1hexa or triangle or 2/3 hexa per around 30-40min; i have no idea how much they would be worth to sell, and i need to research on french legislation regarding plastic pavings (if there is any :o)
As @yuri-fabris physical stores will make a big difference; @unity is going to open a coffeeshop in Lyon city where at least 10ppl are getting active, i mean, it’s happening !!
oh and before i forget : “The problem is of course, that every workspace is in a different situation. Different situations mean different business plans”
Indeed this is a VERY important point, the activity your PP business will have in a developped country is VERY different than in countries where recycling is unaccesible.
And one LAST thing, what’s amazing with this business plan thinking, is that there is work for EVERYONE, no fear for competition before a long time !
sorry for long post (don’t have potato gif sry)
edit: imo, you can’t sell a business plan to your client, it’s a personal choice to be made step by step (also, you wouldn’t want to be responsible to have sold a business plan to a client who failed because he was too lazy to do this or that)
Hey @siemenb thanks for the post and great enthusiasm. And indeed, we do need to develop a proper business plan to help people become financially self-sufficient and help clear doubt to people that want to get started.
As you will find with your research a big obstacle to this (or at least that we found) is within the opensource nature of the project. Let me explain, we offer one way of doing things in a particular place of the planet. Some people reproduce it exactly the same. But a great number of people have to adapt their machines, outcomes and products to their contexts.
This creates a huge number of different variables which can conflict with the creation of a single business plan that fits everyone.
But again, we’re not big on business as you probably have guessed. You probably can come up with an applicable solution. Really hope so 🙂
Hello, this is a great idea! Willing to invest some time by offering assistance if you need it. Would be an asset to the community to have a well presented uniform business plan
I just deleted timhardex’s account (second account I delete from him), this guy is just out of his mind. If you see him around the forum with a new account, please let me know
I’ve been trying to talk with you multiple times @timhardex but it seems we talk a different language. This is the last time i’ll reply to your feedback, you’ve already gotten to much attention for the actual input you delivered. The things you address are very much from one/your point of view. Not that they are wrong, but they are not right to make drastic claims like “scams” “remove the wooddrill” “fooling us”. If it doesn’t work for you and you in fancy Europe doesn’t mean it doesn’t work for anyone else in the world.
1: Never had or heard any major negative feedback on the wooddrill. I’ve used it myself for +2 years and still use it with a basic setup. Get most of the jobs done.(not beams though)
2: Whats the point of weak shredders? I’d say that depends mainly on your own build quality and material choice. Sure it’s not industrial quality (working on that) but if construct properly you can run it for a long time.
3: Filament is in Beta, under development. says it in the title, can’t expect a solid output from that
Now i’m off. Hopefully you find a peaceful way to contribute.
Sigh..Again @timhardex. Provide us those realistic worldwide average numbers and we are happy to change them. And get a stress ball or something to get rid of your frustrations
@timhardex here it goes again…
@siemenb are you still around? do you have documented your research ? My ears are wide open. I’m a voluntary machine builder, initially but i realize my clients seem also have no idea what to do with their 5000 Euro machine setup. Doing some cups, plates and chairs isn’t exactly worth the work and extreme high invest, IMHO….
I think the business plan doesn’t differ much from those who do micro manufacturing at home. Having all those machines and plastic recycled ready for production represents only 30% of the whole operation. To make a living, you need lots networking, lots of time to design, prototyping and test a feasible product and in any case, it requires another 3000 – 5000 Euro for more machinery. I just asked today for ‘suite-able’ products here.
On the marketing, networking & accounting side I hope the PP teams comes up with something. I hope they replace the bazar with something more adequate, think of a reseller or hub. That way users don’t need to worry to much at their starting phase:-)
It would also make a huge difference if we have reliable and cheap source for machines. At the moment, Everyone is left to proprietary & overpriced machines and even sharks… If PP can manage to build per continent a source for shredder, mold production, etc… the entry ‘fee’ could be reduced down 60%, per machine.
Until then we just can hope the community comes up with reproducible success stories, IMHO 🙂
Not sure if you have found the excel person you are looking for or shown the community the manual but I wanted to express my interest to help. I am the founder of a recycling charity (so I understand excel/money) and am currently setting up a community-run project in Dominica.
I currently use a series of excels I developed in my previous job as a Project Manager for an international non-profit.
Hello ! I am from China. In China, NGO / NPO have very limited channels for fund-raising, and in many aspects, they lack legal guarantees. Therefore, I think that it is more feasible to run the project about Precious Plastic by building up a commercial company. However, there is still a lack of a suitable business model. Only rely on the sale of recycled plastic products is uncompetitive, because ordinary plastic products of better quality, the price is cheaper. So I am currently thinking of a business model that combines recycled plastics with education and entertainment.
This sounds great as I’m working on setting up that as a viable business in my area. I’m setting up under local nonprofit, but finding machines is hard. I’m wondering if I can use all Dave’s web info of if that’s a copy write issue. I know you’re not the person to ask, Im responding to give you more idea of what the needs are. Thank You and good luck , I like your proposal.
I like your idea too 🙂
Because of the size of my community and its massive plastic consumption, which quickly ends up in the landfill (and a [realtively] small percentage in the streams, rivers, ocean, and no landfill land), I am feeling like we need to reach a critical mass quickly. A vast majority of my community will be in support of our efforts, but I need to take philosophical support and transmute it into physical/monetary support. Currently, most residents pay to have their weekly trash and recycling taken to the dump– obviously only reaching part of the community’s goals for its ‘trash’. I would like to displace/disrupt that system to divert all usable plastic into a community plastic banking system, from which a new local manufacturing economy can eventually grow– perhaps starting with making emergency shelter panels!
My community has several examples of sustainable practices, policies, and networks to learn from, but no exact template to follow. Hence, my posts ;P
For example–There is a local woman who started a community composting program where for $5 (US) she picks up compost once a week on her bike. She then composts the material at a local nonprofit (Homeless Garden Project) and participants can come to get finished compost for use on at home gardens.
I would like to emulate many of her successes, however, the scale of my communities plastic consumption, as well as the costs for equipment necessitate some different strategies.
Still in the brainstorming stage, but I want to make sure this venture is solvent. I don’t necessarily want to spend all(any?) my Precious time fundraising… I hope to create a symbiotic system (that pays for itself ha!) Looking for any ideas of how to turn philosophical support into sustainable support. Since people here are already paying to have their ‘trash’ taken away, seems like I might be able to get them to spend that money more wisely– aka on community Precious Plastic program!
Thanks for reading and being my sounding board 😀
I look forward to creating in collaboration with all of you <3
I’m not offended, just trying to learn myself by going through the forums. I think the cost issue you bring up can be controlled on what exactly you want to do with this project. I think you can make a small system or elaborate one and spend plenty of money.
I’m also an engineer and machinist. I’ve built a shredder and extruder that costed me about 1k usd each to build using supplies in the Philippines. 3kw shredder is shredding about 90 bottles an hour with a small hole sieve. I believe could do more once I make a larger sieve. The cutter box stays full after a bit but it still eats bottles fine. How long it will last? I don’t know but I’m using a belt as my consumable. We shall see.
I just saw you are making a multi station machine. In my opinion I rather keep the machines separate because being a machinist the all in one machines usually don’t do a great job of a specific task, plus If it breaks everything is down. Then your workflow just stops until you an fix it.
Just my 002 🙂
What a headache to read, not to mention a rude hijack. If you made a business mistake and don’t like the project why don’t you just leave instead of trolling it?
Yeah maybe the workflow of precious plastic needs some better explaining to be able to better understand it. The way it’s been working so far, and anybody can correct me if I’m wrong, is that the precious plastic team releases a new version. Then people get started with that new version, and ideally share their experiences on the forums to take into consideration for the next version. I think the team also meets up with people building/using the machines around the world to also get a better idea of what works, what doesn’t and what can be improved. They then gather all the input and start reworking the project where all of the new stuff gets launched with a new version.
So there isn’t anybody who is constantly updating the website whenever something is being mentioned on the forums, which Guenter perhaps was expecting. And there might not always be somebody that will reply, which might make you feel like you’re being ignored. But the way Guenter started responding to this lacked quite a bit of respect towards the people that put so much time and effort in PP so far.
The research that has gone into getting the machines and all the information to its current state and finding out how to use them is tremendous, and that’s just a small part of running PP. There’s documenting everything and putting that into different formats: Video’s with step by step instructions and a neatly organized downloadable kit with a huge amount of information, technical drawings with BOM and 3D models. Then there’s this website and the precious plastic website designed (don’t underestimate the time it takes for making a proper working interface and layout) and built from scratch, with a user database and lots of custom features. There’s the social media marketing and communication and a ton of e-mails and phone calls to reply to with requests for interviews, meetings, conferences and talks. All done by a handful of unpaid people/volunteers as they haven’t had a big budget over the last years while working on this.
Then somebody with a lack of understanding and respect for all of that starts screaming and accusing them for being a scam and liars, it’s not surprising they don’t feel like listening to or dealing with that person. Even if he might have valid points.
p.s. Just an idea that popped in my head as I was typing: perhaps it could be good to start opening issues (bugs/enhancements/questions) on Github based on feedback on the forums. We could then post a link to the issue as a reply to the topic so people see if something has been noted and can keep track of the progress. I’m not sure how well this would work for PP but on another forum/project I’m active this seems to work. It could also help with planning for the next version.
Guenter’s topics have not been deleted, only some of his posts that included hateful content.
On regards of Guenter’s spreadsheet and topics, his findings will be taken into account when Precious Plastic v4 is released. I have read all of the information he has shared and I don’t see any mention of something critical that needs to be added into the Precious Plastic v3 documentation.
We already have multiple topics to discuss present issues such as machines safety addons and warnings, knives re-design for better efficiency and less torque requirements, use of one single steel thickness instead of multiple gauges, and all that info will be included in the PP v4 package eventually.
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