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Find a solution for film waste (V4)

This topic contains 25 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Jas M 1 month ago.

8
Louis Bindernagel brunowindt

Find a solution for film waste (V4)

04/10/2018 at 16:21

Hi everybody!!!

We Bori, a fashion designer from Romania, and Louis, a product designer from Germany, are trying to tackle the problem of recycling film waste. We are going to face many issues with sorting and shredding the film, the release of toxic gases and impurities like paper and aluminum. Both of us are not very familiar with recycling plastics so there will be lots of new experiences and things to learn. We are going to share all of our experiments here and would be very glad for any Tips, Help, Knowledge etc. 🙂

Bori & Louis

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starter
13/10/2018 at 22:31
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In the last two weeks we got to know our material to work on – plastic film. Through experimenting in different directions we are trying to tackle the problems with recycling films and film-like compound materials. After collecting plastic from the local shops and the PP Workspace we made up a rough system to pre-sort. There will be four different groups for now: Clearly labeled PE (HDPE, LDPE), plastics contaminated with paper and glue, films containing aluminum and other metals and unidentified plastics. (Let us know what you think about this :))The easiest to work with is the clean PE and to get to know our material this is where we started.

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starter
13/10/2018 at 22:34
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SORTING:

Plastic films are very hard to sort and separate from second materials. This is a fact we had to accept. So we will find a way to work with it. Finding clean PE is the easiest and will be the base material of our experiments. Metals and Papers are also easy to distinguish. So we stay left with a wild mix of all kinds of plastics, including the toxic PVC. Luckily PVC doesn’t float, so it is rather easy to separate it. Though we need to make a compromise also PS and PET sinks to the bottom and will be lost for our experiments at the moment. This also means using water and possibly polluting it. This is the way how we want to reduce the amount of PVC in the mixture and stay with a relatively clean mixture of PE and PP, these plastics work well with each other and we can process them further.

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starter
13/10/2018 at 22:52
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starter
13/10/2018 at 22:53
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SHREDDING:

Using a very basic one axis shredder with a rough mesh we tried our luck and it worked surprisingly well and we got a fluffy mixture of plastic film. But after a few minutes, the blades warm up so much that the films start to get sticky and it slows down the process. After a while, we could observe a big amount of microplastics in the air. Both are circumstances which make it tricky to work on that way, but we are on it, luckily water can help us with that again, we are working on a system, which will help us to cool the shredder, keep down the microplastics, filters the water and help us sorting the shredded films. But more to that once we are able to properly test it. Despite these problems, we could collect a few buckets of different colors and materials – enough to start working.

Video of shredding different materials

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starter
15/10/2018 at 11:47
2

MOLDING:

We decided for the beginning to make simple material tests, with an oven, a sheet press, and simple square molds. The first test didn’t work well. The second better. We exchanged the baking trays to build our own mold out of wood and tiles with four individual chambers, so we can experiment faster and test different materials under the same conditions. With this new mold, it took us three tries until we managed to create consistent thin sheets. After that, we felt ready to test our mixed material and similar consistent sheets came out of the press. The sheets are between 2-4 millimeter, have a very shiny surface and are very flexible.

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starter
15/10/2018 at 11:50
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Our Plan how to go on now is to experiment with different mixtures of plastic, different surfaces, bigger molds, and three-dimensional objects. Once we got some things figured out, our research might be developing towards textile to create a wearable piece of clothing.

Come by for a visit to Eindhoven at the Dutch Design Week and if you have any ideas, tips or knowledge please write us a line!

Bori & Louis

warrior
15/10/2018 at 15:35
2

Hey guys !
Have you thought of pushing further the fuse system with PE Films ?

You can easily fuse sheets together with cooking paper and an iron, you can create complex mono-material stuff! (sourcing tip : Logistics company use TONS everyday :p)
I also tried to mould PE Film, and results are more than satisfying (the only issue being how to quantify the needed amout of film to fill the mould without using a schredder _which as i can read from your experience is limited_)
nick

helper
16/10/2018 at 11:12
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Hi,

are you sure that the label from carbonated drinks is made of PE (Coca Cola, Pepsi Co, etc)?

I think it’s PP plastic.

starter
16/10/2018 at 13:09
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@imuh actually the shower curtains in our new workspace are made that way 🙂 but again it leaves us with very limited possibilities and we are rather trying to find solutions for everything which can’t be clearly defined!
I would like to see some of your experiments with PE films in case you have any pictures! 🙂

For quantifying we are trying to work with a cooling system, but we still need a few days to set that up!

 

@copypastestd I don’t think I mentioned anywhere what the labels are made of!

But thanks I was actually looking for that information 😀

helper
16/10/2018 at 16:14
3

I am not sure about all manufactures, but some of labels are PP.

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warrior
16/10/2018 at 17:01
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hey @brunowindt !
here are a couple experiments with PE fusing
ps: the #2HDPE written on the 2nd photo is referring to the plastic IN the PE bag :p

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starter
23/10/2018 at 14:01
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As we continued our experiments with plastic films, we were curious if the shredding is truly necessary or it can just be skipped. We cut with scissors some transparent (probably, but not clearly labeled) PE bags and just placed them into the moulds, 20g each. In some of them we also mixed uncategorized plastic film shreds to see how different materials react.

We used the same oven to melt it, on 230 degrees, for 45min. After that we pressed it with a small basic sheet press.

As a result we got some very flexible thin sheets, some of them surprisingly beautiful, but because it was not shredded the edges didn’t turn out very nice. They still remained transparent, but even the smallest amount of dust is visible, so  cleaning is crucial in this case.

So if you don’t have a very precise mold the shredding can be just skipped, but if you want to have bigger control over what’s happening during melting and pressing, it’s better to shred the film waste.

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starter
29/10/2018 at 19:18
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Melting metallised film

Metallised films are mostly used in the food industry for packaging potato chips, or cookies etc. From a quick research we found out that typically is made up of at least 4 different layers, and each has a very specific purpose. The innermost layer is almost always a polymer called BOPP, which stands for bi-axially oriented polypropylene. BOPP is also used in a middle layer, after a second layer of LDPE (low-density polyethylene). The outermost layer is usually a thermoplastic resin whose trademark name is Surlyn. So far, with our semi-industrial machines it is not possible to separate all these different materials from each other.

Another challenge with metallised film, at least for us, it was collecting. Because most plastic recycling companies don’t accept this kind of films, people, restaurants, bars etc. usually throw it away with the food waste. Even if you convince them to collect it separately, you get greasy bags with some food waste in it. So cleaning is necessary in this case as well.

After shredding them, we made a quick floating test to avoid melting PVC. Most of the shreds were floating. The next step was melting, we made some simple square tests. In one of the moulds we put 25g metallized film shreds, in the other ones we mixed it with 15 and 20 g of shredded PE.  We left them in the oven for 45 min on 230 degrees, and pressed them after. The metallised film didn’t really melted, just got pressed a little bit, so it didn’t became a solid sheet. We are planning to make some more tests with a stronger sheet press. The mixed ones turned out somehow better. The PE was acting as some kind of glue and sticked together the metallised film shreds. But this might not be the best solution because of mixing together even more types of plastic.  So these were only the first experiments with metallised films, let us know if you have any experience or ideas.

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starter
06/11/2018 at 13:22
2

Melting shredded films in a metal mould

 

We decided to try melting clean transparent uncategorized film shreds in a metal mould. It didn’t turn out very well due to multiple difficulties and mistakes, so this post is more about what not to do. We had a metal mould for bowls, it was already tested for melting other types of plastic. The first challenge while melting films is that is very fluffy, it takes a lot of space. We needed 350 gram, somehow we managed to fit it in the mould. It quickly melted and shrinked. We left it in the compression machine for 40 min at 220°C (it was too much) . When we added pressure (also too much) the plastic started to run out, all over the oven, we noticed that it was already burned and it made a lot of fumes (luckily we had some masks on). After we let it cool down and cleaned the oven, we tried to separate the mold, but we couldn’t, because it  was so sticky. So we put it back to 120°C  for around 15min just to melt a little bit, and after around 2 hours of struggling we took off one side of the mould, but it was still stuck in the other one. The transparent films turned out dark greyish green (not sure if it’s burned or that’s how the color is in thicker layers), and on the sides were burned, and also the texture was not everywhere smooth.

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warrior
07/11/2018 at 09:27
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oh my ! @barbola !

I had the same issue for quite some time; tried using different mouldreleasers… was always hardcore to unmould…. but then when i came to visit you guys at eindhoven, Nate showed me how he uses his moulds with the extrusion, he said that the most important part was for the mould to be COLD !

So i’ve tried that techniques with LDPE, HDPE, PP & PS and it works SO MUCH BETTER !
i would suggest you put it to melt in a teflon-coated dish, and only when it’s melted put it in your mould for compression; the result is SO SATISFYING !

(but then that implies to have the compression system out of the oven…)

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starter
15/11/2018 at 16:48
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Hi @imuh !

I’m glad you could manage it, looks cool. Is the one on the picture from plastic bags?

warrior
15/11/2018 at 17:44
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hey @borbala !
The plastic used on the picture are
black : garbage bags
white : pallet wrap

Many more to come !
Cheers ! 🙂

starter
15/11/2018 at 18:15
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Ironing mixed plastic film shreds

I wanted to make some experiments that does not require specific tools like moulds, sheet press or oven. I simply ironed the shredded plastic films between two baking paper.

I was working with uncategorised foils, probably with different types of plastics, with different melting temperatures, but surely it had a lot of LDPE , just they weren’t labeled. I started with the lowest temperature, but it wasn’t melting, so I tried with higher temperature (since is a basic Iron I don’t know the exact temperature). It melted quite nicely (even on the maximum temperature it didn’t burn) it was easy to remove it from the baking paper. The results were flexible sheets with an interesting texture.

The difficulty in this case is to control the thickness of the sheet, and to avoid holes. But in the same time is very easy to control the colors, if you want to create some kind of pattern or decorative surfaces.

I made experiments with transparent films, and also with the colorful ones. In the case of plastic films is hard to sort different colors, because most of the films are multicolored, they have a lot of writing, logos on them. I was trying to select more or less the primary colors but as you can see they were very mixed.

For the moment, I could imagine more likely artistic or decorative applications of these sheets.

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helper
23/11/2018 at 12:46
3

Hey guys, I’m Charlotte a designer working on V4, I am now taking over the foils project from Bori and Louis. Looking at all their thorough research it has allowed me to see what materials work well together once heated and what don’t. For instance, the foils like crisp packets and biscuit wrappings don’t heat together well, so Bori and Louis have been mixing it with LDPE to bind it together, which has worked. This is my first week working on it, and so far this is what I’ve done, Louis made a nice big mould so we could test with larger sheets which is great. We can also control the thickness of the sheet with this mould also – suuuuuuuuper cool and helpful.

Currently, I am focusing on the LDPE and HDPE films, once heated they present a flexible material which I instantly was attracted too. I also noticed that once you score into the sheets you can turn it into a 3D object, and it holds well, how long for I don’t know.

So I am now looking at designing a bike mudguard from the LDPE plastic, it seems like a great use for the films, bendy and hard wearing. The plan is to make a sheet and create cuttings, that once bent will form a mudguard structure.
Would love to know if anybody has experience in this origami style structures with bendy thin plastic like this.

Happy Friday!

Charlotte 🙂

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starter
29/11/2018 at 13:33
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Hey guys,

I’m new to the thread but have read up on everything that was posted since the beginning. I am an architect living in Indonesia and have been trying to integrate plastic film (crisp packets, snack packaging etc) into different construction materials as more of a decorative element. They shrink super easily and don’t bind together at all, so mixing it with LDPE or HDPE is also an option that I had tried.

Indonesia has a massive plastic issue in general, but the one of plastic film is especially big, mainly due to how everythinggg is in plastic packets. I’ll post some photos of some of the stuff we’ve made over here as well. But yes definitely only a decorative element at this time for us – basically replaces the use of glitter.

 

Jas

helper
03/12/2018 at 22:14
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Hi to those reading 🙂 I thought I would keep you updated with what I am working on, I tried to post on Friday but DH seemed to be down. Sooo over the past week, I made a few new sheets, 1 turned out successful – yay! The other two not so much. As you can see (first image) the sheet came out really well, it was a mix of LDPE (mainly LDPE) and PP foils. Before putting it in the oven I cut the bags and foils into strips, which allowed me to control the design of the sheet, which was nice. I particularly like working with the strong graphics in the films. I placed 150g of plastic for 1 hour at 200 degrees. However the second image, same conditions but came out very weird, I think it was down to their not being enough pressure in the mould whilst the plastic was heated. But I now know that around 150g of plastic gives me the density and thickness that I want, so I can carry on this ‘cutting and folding’ technique with the sheets that I spoke about in my previous post. The last image you can see where I have started to cut into the plastic and making new forms, and it holds well which is great. I still want to carry on with the bike mudguard product as I think it’d be a great material for it.

Jas1092, it’d be great to know if you think is a good idea, and whether it could be useful as a construction material! I was thinking of having big plastic corrugated sheets as shelters, but obviously, plastic that has a direct UV sunlight over a period of time can be very bad….

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helper
03/12/2018 at 22:15
1

Some more images of the bike guard and the plastic in the mould pre baking 🙂

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helper
11/12/2018 at 13:01
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Hello guys, I will be wrapping up foils and putting it on hold until the new year. So I thought I would catch you up with what I have learnt so far. In the past week, I tested a sheet combining the mixed categorised clean shreds that floated, with LDPE strips (shopping bags) and some PP films. The bottom of the sheet was the shreds, and the top I placed the strips of LDPE and PP films. I put it in at 230 degrees for an hour, which unfortunately was too hot, and got very very stuck to mould… However, I would like to test this again, as I think if I did it slightly cooler around 200 degrees, it would have been successful.

I also tested playing with a heat gun and moulding it around something, which could propose more ideas for the potential for the thin and flexibility properties of this material.

Reflecting and looking back, even though I have only worked on films for a few weeks, I have really enjoyed it and I see a lot of potential working with the material. Its flexibility and strength is very cool, and also playing with strong graphical elements such as the labels, warning signs, typography etc. can make each sheet / product unique to one another. I also think the ironing technique works well, and for a low skilled application, it proves to be successful (Bori’s images above). I still would also like to develop this folding and bending idea, if you look at the post below you can see the mudguard product ‘Ass Saver’ they have designed their guards to be made from one single sheet which you snap and bend into place, which I think would work well to be made from PE films and some PP foils! So to conclude, still lots of potential with the films and foils which I will hopefully revisit back in the New Year, and if not I will attend to this in my free time outside of V4 working days. Goodbyeeeeee plastic film enthusiasts 🙂

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helper
11/12/2018 at 13:17
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🙂

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starter
13/12/2018 at 12:01
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Hey Charlotte thank you for the update – the flat sheet with the strips looks great. I also think the strips are a great idea, that’s how I have been working with them too. I think the best way to use them in a construction type of application is maybe via layering, so that it becomes stronger. The melted plastic that welds it all together adds a bit of flexibility so it could be interesting to work with that. I also think that the idea of being able to almost mould the metal strips into shape before heating the plastic down to hold it in place could potentially facilitate the production of interesting forms, given that working with melted plastic can be hard as it sets so quickly.

I have definitely considered plastic tiles and panels to use as roof tiles or in modular design to create a shelter, but there is the problem of resistance against UV, the heat ratio coefficient (becomes super hot inside the shelter built) and also the issue with the plastic melting. Combining an aggregate (ideally not sand, maybe crushed glass or something to mimic it) could be a solution to the heat issue. This all still needs to be explored 🙂

 

Anyway thanks for the update, hope to see more cool experiments soon!

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