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Heating setup

This topic contains 31 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  PlasticHub 1 week ago.

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Bashir Muzakkari muzakkar

Heating setup

26/08/2020 at 03:03

Dear all,
I bought a C100FK07 M*AN PID with SSR-40 DA relay and a 400V 300W heating band. I followed the schematic to connect the components together but my heating band isn’t heating up.
I used tester to check the polarity, the header body is showing a positive charge so also the all the heater terminals.
Please help me out.

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In reply to: Heating setup

warrior
26/08/2020 at 05:41
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Take a look at your instructions. Does the M in the model number mean relay type? I think your SSR is looking for a DC voltage to turn it on but that model provides just a relay switch but not a voltage. If you can exchange it, a type V may be what you need. I you can’t exchange it, you may just need to add a low voltage DC source to operate the SSR through the switch in the PID.
I’m just guessing so post some pictures if you can.

In reply to: Heating setup

starter
26/08/2020 at 11:27
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Thank you for the help. It works when I used a DC power supply. But unfortunately the PID seems not to be controlling the Temperature.
I set the SV to 160 but the PV exceeds the value. But I noticed a green light used to go off and on.
Please help on this too.

In reply to: Heating setup

warrior
26/08/2020 at 20:23
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It is hard to help trouble shoot without a picture or schematic. Is the heater and thermocouple installed on a tube? How are they installed? Are you using a type K thermocouple? When you first turn on the PID does the PV show a correct temperature for the room?

Without power to the heater, if you set the SV below the PV, is the output light off and the PID output switch measures open (or with your DC power supply there is no voltage at the SSR input) and the SSR output is off. When you increase the SV above PV, the output light comes on and the PID switch closes, with your DC supply, the SSR input has voltage and the SSR output is ON. Does all that happen?

In reply to: Heating setup

starter
29/08/2020 at 02:34
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Yes I am using K type thermocouple.
Yes it shows the room temperature.
Yes when I set the PV value higher than the SV value the green light went off.

I connected the DC power directly to the SSR and no DC connection between the SSR and the PID.

In reply to: Heating setup

warrior
29/08/2020 at 06:49
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One side of the DC circuit passes through the PID before it gets to the SSR. The PID acts as the switch for the DC circuit.

In reply to: Heating setup

starter
29/08/2020 at 07:28
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I passed the DC circuit via the PID but still experiencing the same thing.
I placed the thermocoupler inside the heating band. Do you think that could be a problem?

In reply to: Heating setup

warrior
29/08/2020 at 19:42
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“Yes when I set the PV value higher than the SV value the green light went off”

When you are changing the values on the PID you are changing the Set Value (SV) the PV should be what the thermocouple measures.

You can check the PID with just local heat (fingers, match, etc.) on the thermocouple.
SV  greater than PV, output light on and DC voltage at SSR input
Warm the thermocouple to PV greater than SV, output light off and no DV voltage at SSR input.

Placing the thermocouple on or under the heating band can cause problems. the thermocouple needs to measure the temperature of the tube you are heating not just the band. See some of the other threads for more discussion.

In reply to: Heating setup

starter
29/08/2020 at 21:56
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Thanks for your informative responses.
I noticed that when ever the PV exceeds or nearly exceeds the SV, the Output led goes off but the SSR light remains static.
I am using a 12V DC adapter as external power source to power the SSR since the PID model I am using doesn’t power the PID.
Almost everything is ready only a little tweek on the heating control.

In reply to: Heating setup

warrior
29/08/2020 at 23:23
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Just to confirm. The positive from your 12 power supply goes to the back of the PID to the relay connection (4?) and then connection 5 is connected to the positive on the SSR. The negative  from the power supply is connected directly to the negative on the SSR.
With a voltmeter you can confirm that the input to the SSR turns on and off with the green light on the PID.

In reply to: Heating setup

starter
29/08/2020 at 23:56
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The positive from the DC supply goes to the positive terminal of my PID and SSR and the negative goes to the negative terminals as well.
The negative from the power supply goes to the SSR negative terminal.
Pls do you mind sharing your WhatsApp number so we can chat and finish this up?

In reply to: Heating setup

warrior
30/08/2020 at 01:12
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I prefer to answer in the forum in case others have similar questions.

I am assuming your PID looks something like the image below. In that example connections 4 and 5 are the PID output for the SSR (relay in your case). Those two connections are two sides of a switch. The positive side of your power DC supply connects directly number 4. Then a wire from number 5 connects to the positive on your SSR. The positive from your power supply does not connect directly to the SSR (otherwise it will always stay on). As stated above the negative from the power supply connects to the negative of the SSR.

Good luck

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In reply to: Heating setup

starter
30/08/2020 at 01:22
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Everything is perfectly connected. I used an external DC source to power the SSRs and the red indicator light remains illuminated even after the PID output went off.

In reply to: Heating setup

warrior
30/08/2020 at 04:06
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Sorry without pictures or model information, I’ve run out of suggestions. If the SSR is not connected directly to your power supply and the SSR light stays on when the PID output light is off,  check that you are connected to the correct output terminals. Otherwise check that the PID by itself is working properly with a continuity test on the output.

In reply to: Heating setup

dedicated
02/09/2020 at 15:09
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If you connect your SSR to a dc power supply, this one stays on as long as the dc is connected. How do you want that the PID shuts off the SSR if it is not connected to the control input of the PID?

“I noticed that when ever the PV exceeds or nearly exceeds the SV, the Output led goes off but the SSR light remains static.”  This is the expected behaviour the way how you connected the SSR.

“I am using a 12V DC adapter as external power source to power the SSR since the PID model I am using doesn’t power the PID.”  You probably wanted to say “doesn’t power the SSR”. In this case, whats the point to have a PID when it doesn’t control the SSR?
An SSR doesn’t need to be powered, if you want that it closes the contacts, you apply an input-voltage, if you want the contacts to be open, you take off the input-voltage.

In reply to: Heating setup

starter
02/09/2020 at 16:23
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Please how do I go about it? The PID is not controlling the SSD.

In reply to: Heating setup

dedicated
02/09/2020 at 17:01
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On the PID on the photo above you would connect the input of the SSR  to Connector 4 (+) and 5 (-). As it’s stated in the schematics of the machine.
Another thing, you said in your first post that the heatband is 400V, are you sure about that?

In reply to: Heating setup

starter
02/09/2020 at 21:48
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I did follow the schematic the PID model I a using is the M*AN model. I connected the SSR correctly but the led light isn’t illuminated until when I use an external DC power source. What could be the problem pls?

Yes the hater is 400V 300W

In reply to: Heating setup

starter
02/09/2020 at 22:38
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“I am assuming your PID looks something like the image below. In that example connections 4 and 5 are the PID output for the SSR (relay in your case). Those two connections are two sides of a switch. The positive side of your power DC supply connects directly number 4. Then a wire from number 5 connects to the positive on your SSR. The positive from your power supply does not connect directly to the SSR (otherwise it will always stay on). As stated above the negative from the power supply connects to the negative of the SSR.”

Please can you give me a sketch?
Thank you.

In reply to: Heating setup

dedicated
02/09/2020 at 22:41
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First question, how do you send 400V to the band heaters?
Second question, can you measure on the outputs of the PID (4 and 5 in the case of the photo) when it is supposed to heat, which means you set the value to more than the ambient temperature.
Photos of your setup could be helpful.

In reply to: Heating setup

dedicated
02/09/2020 at 23:16
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The quote you did at 22:38 is a bit unclear. Taking the things from the beginning:
You have three items, a PID, an SSR and the heater. And an AC-Power of course (400V/220V, we will see that later).
The PID is connected to AC-Power, otherwise it won’t start. So far so good.
Then, you connect your temperature sonde to 9 and 10 (always in regard to the photo above). Okay. If you put AC on your PID, you should read on the PV-side the ambient roomtemperature. Now touch the sensor with your hands, the PV Value should move up until 30 – 35° C. Does this happen? If yes move on to the SSR.
Connect the input of the SSR (there where its probably say something like 3 – 24V DC) to the output (4+5) of the PID. + and – needs to be respected. Now, when you put your  PV Value to higher than roomtemperature, the LED on the SSR should light up. Is this the case? If not, your PID is maybe bad. (Measure to be sure if you can, it should output some DC-Voltage)
If yes, plug your heater to the output of the SSR.
If yes, connect the neutral of mains (AC) directly to one connection of the heater. Then, connect the phase of mains (AC) to one side of the output of the SSR and connect the other out of the SSR to the other connection of the band heater. The SSR acts like a switch, open or closed, it does not output phase(live) and neutral.
Put the PV Value to a value much higher than roomtemperature and the heatband should start to heat. If not, maybe the trouble is your 400V Heaters.

In reply to: Heating setup

dedicated
02/09/2020 at 23:21
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Still, having photos of your setup would be best.

In reply to: Heating setup

starter
02/09/2020 at 23:33
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Once more, thank you for your help.
I guess the PID isn’t giving out any DC output. Because I did exactly what you said and it tallies with almost all the tutorials on Youtube but the heaters are not heating up. But if I connect the heaters directly, they heat up, or when I use only heater and PID without the SSR.

In reply to: Heating setup

warrior
03/09/2020 at 05:00
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A lot of confusion here. Based on what you said, your PID is the is the relay type (type M). It does not provide DC output but just acts like a switch. You connect it between your DC power supply and the SSR DC input connection. You can connect it into either the positive or negative side your choice. If you pick the positive side. As was described earlier, you connect DC power supply positive to #4 on PID then connect # 5 to positive on SSR. Connect negative on SSR directly to negative on DC power supply. When PV is below SV, the PID output light will be on and the internal switch between #4 and #5 will be closed and the SSR light will be on and power will go to your heater on the 220 side. If that does not happen I can’t help you further without a picture of your wiring.
Good luck

In reply to: Heating setup

dedicated
03/09/2020 at 09:49
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Sorry if i added confusion but i refered to the photo above. This PID clearly outputs DC on 4 and 5.

In reply to: Heating setup

starter
03/09/2020 at 11:42
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I have solved the PID-SSR connection issue, I connected the DC power supply positive to Terminal 3 of the PID and connected terminal 5 to the SSR Positive terminal. I connected the DC negative directly to the negative terminal of the SSR.
BUT
The problem is when the PV reached the SV, the temperature keeps dropping while the PID out led is on and the SSR led is off.

In reply to: Heating setup

warrior
03/09/2020 at 16:29
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Also note a 400V 300W heater operating at 230V only puts out 100W

In reply to: Heating setup

starter
10/09/2020 at 17:52
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My barrel is not reaching to the required temperature please what could be the problem?
Once the heater reaches above 120 degrees it starts the temperature starts dropping.

In reply to: Heating setup

dedicated
11/09/2020 at 10:29
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Are you sure that your PID is correctly parametered? There are a lot of youtube videos on this: eg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM8Pc-LWZJU&ab_channel=quailfarm
And still you are using a 400V bandheater on 230V mains!

In reply to: Heating setup

warrior
12/09/2020 at 04:23
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We are trying to help you but just telling us your system does not heat the tube above 120C is not enough. Pictures, wiring diagrams, troubleshooting results, brand of the PID (some have no parameter adjustments but work OK), and any other information you have.

In reply to: Heating setup

starter
12/09/2020 at 07:25
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@s2019 thank you for your concern. I added more heaters and use glass fiber heat insulation. The temperature is now very okay and the barrel heats up to the required temperature.
The problem now is, the extruder jams when pushing the molten plastic into the beam mold.

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