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how can this project help with the plastic problem

This topic contains 11 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  Adrien Luitot 3 years ago.

Sarah Wamser wamsi

how can this project help with the plastic problem

28/07/2018 at 00:13

I think the project is good but I still have some questions left. Google translate helps me to translate the text, so do not be surprised about mistakes. I have already understood the following: if you have a recycling machine you can make sure that other people are more concerned with this topic. Maybe they even start recycling their trash properly to give it to you. you can use it to produce more or less meaningful objects. The lampshades and the other objects may look fancy, but how many of these objects does a household need? If the plastic had not landed with you, then it would have landed (in the worst case) in the residual waste and burned. Or in the sea. In the best case, it would have been recycled in a recycling plant with a lot of energy. From the plastic an inferior product would have been produced, because there is always a loss of quality. Presumably, primary plastic would have been added to the new product to ensure some quality. That means recycling would be cleaner with your Precious Plastic machine than in a conventional recycling plant. But what would the world look like if there were such a machine in every city or household? Would global plastic production be stopped? No, as the economy would continue to sell useless plastic products. Although consumers no longer have any need for lampshades, etc., but for other things that can not be produced with a Precious Plastic machine. Plastic packaging would also be needed in the future and therefore also be produced. If everyone kept their plastic waste and recycled it with their own machine, there would be no plastic left for the recycling plants. And for all new plastic products and packaging, the industry would have to use primary plastic, which of course is very harmful to the environment from natural gas or oil. In third world countries such a PP machine makes more sense. Because there all the plastic ends up in the environment. Please teach me and explain me how the Precious Plastic Project wants to solve the plastic problem. Best regards

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29/07/2018 at 18:37

Hello @wamsi !
Did you take a long look on the subject ? Or did you just see the project and come on the forum to say that ? Both of these reason are legit. I don’t blame you.

I’ll try to answer in the same order as you.

So, there is not only lampshades, you can do almost what you want with these machines. Take a look at this shop (with only recycled objects) : https://bazar.preciousplastic.com/?category=products
There is so many things that everybody could use. Simple examples : Wallet, basket, tiles, …

Then you talked about plastic industry you said that plastic industry will never stop, but yes it will simply because plastic is made from petrol and it’s not an infinite resource. And if everybody has the PP machines, I think that the plastic industry will fall. Because behind the PP idea there isn’t only the recycle idea but also the stop plastic idea. So personally since I know this project I try use less plastic. And few years ago the plastic wasn’t used, all bottles were in glass for the example.

After I don’t know in other country but in France only 3 or 4 plastic types are recycled, PP machines could recycle all type of plastic.

Precious plastic want to solve this problem because there is not a lot of people which do it, look at the oceans, look at the poor beaches. There are covered by plastic. PP offer a “cheap” way to reduce the plastic impact on our lovely planet.

So, I think, that all. I hope that I’ve answer to all your questions. I also hope that you understood using google translate.

30/07/2018 at 12:09

hi adrien,
thank you for answering me!
ok so you think that the plastic industry would fall. interesting. maybe possible.. but whats about the packaging? they will still produce a lot of plastic for wrap up our food and so on, no?
but thank you, your opinion helped me to understand more about the pp vision.

31/07/2018 at 11:57

Hi @wamsi !
I think plastic industry will fall but I don’t know when, maybe in 2 centuries, maybe in 4 or even maybe never.
Packaging could be in cardboard, in glass, or in metal which are elements that pollute less and are easier to recycle.
How did we do 1 or 2 centuries before ? For example bottles were in glass.

31/07/2018 at 12:27

i know its possible but tell this to the industrie. for them, its all about the money..

31/07/2018 at 12:50

good point! from what i see is that there was once upon a time a Designer who had an idea and also put it into reality : ‘precisous plastic’. unfortunately he gave in public too much meaning into it, like ‘change the world’, …

there are apparently enough people believing such things and giving him even rewards, whilst others simply don’t (that would be me and you and all the critics we can find from time to time on youtube,…).

the fact that he underplayed the possibilities and fees about the machines tells me that he was more concerned about getting much as possible people involved rather than actually dealing with the reality: it’s for semi-professionals,  involving a relative big budget, and tremendous amount of time, for a very little impact or outcome. saying it’s ‘easy & affordable’ is a plain lie and would be only true for very skilled guys already working in the field and trust me, they don’t need precious plastic for that.

however, what’s left are good intentions, inspirations and a stimulation for those who are cablable or motivated to get this project further. that’s why see so many people disappearing here in the forum ….

another show breaker that we’ve got also pretty bad tools to collaborate here together, all with the false assumption it must be easy and stuff like this  🙂 he seems to forgot that this about Science, research and development. all we’ve got is a ridiculous forum, static pages and permanent absence of moderation or support.

that’s why i recommend ‘precious plastic’ only to those who are really into entrepreneurship/handcraft since quite some time. you need to be able to effort it. for doing some plastic recycling for home stuff, you can do much better and cheaper without pp machines.

so yes, we have 2 camps here: people who want to make their own lamp from waste, and people who try to make it as sustainable activity with potential revenue. so you are right : it would be childish to say ‘we’re changing the world’, we just reroute and/or delay waste plastic and leave a pretty heavy footprint along with it.

let’s keep fighting however, i am sure if 5 more years passed, there will better machinery & more knowledge to finally build an alternative network of plastic recycling ‘nodes’ all over the planet.

01/08/2018 at 19:05

there was recently an awesome rant article on hackernews called ‘the bulls*it web’ , outlining basically this pretentious & hippocrit world we’re living in. there are nice references to ‘bulls*it jobs’ as well, jobs basically created within that bulls*it world. now after reading this excellent analysis, you will figure out quickly what PP is about.

Another example: the authorities in my town told us people one day – during a monster flood- to build barriers with sand sacks, despite everybody knew it has no meaning but it kept people up and running, and so we ALL did it. I guess you get it now, it’s basically meaningless, what is more important is what do you out of it after all, how you make your next day with it, etc… I know it’s good starter just, not more, not less. depends of course on how you wanna see the world: with hippy sun glasses, or with a realistic and self honest self-criticism, your turn. I can tell, after 6 months PP machine building: it can have fruits, you need to learn how to pick them (hint: it’s not in the bazar 😉

01/08/2018 at 20:05

hi anne-barbier,
thank you very much for your response. I like to question things critically. too many people are either totally for something or totally against it. I just thought that a genius like dave hakkens also has a realistic vision. after all, he is extremely convinced of his project and puts a lot of time, work and energy into it. he also wins one award after another. the last one in the amount of $ 300,000. so i thought there must be a good reason for that, which I just didnt get until now.
so why are you working with pp? and what fruits are you talking about? 😉

02/08/2018 at 12:49

@wamsi you told that I (we) can’t tell to industries to stop making plastic stuff, that’s true but this is not what we want. Because we can’t and we don’t have to. But if nobody buy plastic packaging, but cardboard instead. Don’t you think the industry will use cardboard instead of plastic ?
And I know this will not appear tomorrow. It will take a long time. But look at the foo, a lot of people start to eat Biologic food, OGMs are more and more critiqued.
So I don’t know if it will append but I trust into.

@anne-barbier I’m alright that making these machines isn’t very easy and affordable. But I don’t think it’s totally false. I’m currently trying to do my own machines. For the moment I did 2 trip to the dump and I get a working motor and a oven. For the moment I want to do the shredder and the compression machine. So, Yes I have nothing for the moment but it cost me 0€ too.
Now for me the more expensive things are the shredder and the band heaters.
But I think other things could be find for free or cheap.

To finish you said that Dave lies, I’m not very okay with that. When you go on PP website and you see how to build machines under videos there is an estimation of the price. (Ex. Shredder ~300€)
And in the download kit there is an estimation of the price for each element in a machine.
I’m okay that Dave isn’t very transparent and don’t say everything in his video.
I also want to do that people often rush headlong without checking every thing, so yes when you see the price of the laser cut and you thought it will be free, yes you can be surprised.

02/08/2018 at 13:30

adrienluitot: we can’t sell second hand nor we are interested to sell crap, and v3 is mostly unpredictable crap, nor do we have the time to search, despite we won’t find much here in Spain. We do currently 2 machines the week and proper testing told me to go for much higher throughout, our / my name is here on the line. also most request have professional intentions, no way you build this the magic davehakkens way. and yes, dave told us crap, blatantly, saying you can do filament, there is no single prove here in the entire forum (quite the opposite), just some fake roll. i have to spend per week 30 minutes to clients that it is simply not true and that they need a better machine for this (we’re talking here at least 2000 euro for the extrusion)

having that said, and you must be a fool to say this is easy and affordable and it’s another blatant lie to say you found most in scrapyards. wherever you look, dave tries to hide the real fees and limitations all over the place, it’s clear what the intentions are. it’s shameless insult on the entire profession, abusing people’s good intentions and naivety. i have nothing more to say about since i am spending as said hours per week to clarify those lies with customers.

our current numbers :
shredder: min. 1500 euro (with extras, high quality, 10 more blades). you’re fool to think that you get away with less. results will be accordingly : crap

extrusion: 700 Euro, same as shredder, all new & good quality components

injection: 200 Euro

@wamsi: why i am here ? very long story, basically I am helping friends and p2p networks/communities. Fruits & easter – eggs : that won’t apply for you but all what comes with building machines on a daily base for PP clients: better or more networks, suppliers, training/skills and also recently i could manage that one of my students can make a little living with this activities.

02/08/2018 at 14:10

i just checked, so we have 2+ requests from Africa, per week, mostly through NGOs from France, asking me they need a shredder to fight their big plastic problem (shown with horrifying pictures…). It requires us some time to figure out first their intention, situation & required throughout, etc… and the result is always the same: I have to tell them : don’t use PreciousPlastic machines for that, you simply can’t ! I have enough tests with the v3 shredder: it’s awful, inefficient, tedious and mostly poisonous work (assuming you don’t have the needed space/resources for a washing/cleaning facility, in the size of a double garage )

Normally, open-source projects are honest about their limits and often refer to alternatives in their front-page already. I tried to get PP team to place at least warnings about limitations and hazards,… result: complete ignorance, silence and bogus excuses to keep harming others or wasting people’s time here.

03/08/2018 at 00:46

I don’t really understand why you feel very interested and active on the PP community but you don’t like the project ^^’ It’s a bit surprising.

So, I think, you sell machines at this price because you want to give quality in first time, after you probably want to make money with them and you want to cover the PP bazar and the shipment fees isn’t it ?

You can try to make a new shredder design. It’s the good time, there is the V4.

Then I think we come again to the same problem, the communication (due by the forum). So i think we can  just wait to the V4 for the moment.

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