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V4 BeyondPlastic – [MACHINE DEVELOPMENT]

This topic contains 10 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  Stan 3 weeks ago.

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Jannis dasjannis

V4 BeyondPlastic – [MACHINE DEVELOPMENT]

06/05/2019 at 15:17

For our prototyping so far, we used a 10t manual hydraulic press that cost us around 200€ in the beginning of V4. It enabled us to try out all kinds of things and  to make the first bowls and containers from our biodegradable materials.
Moreover we moved some things around, added first portioning prototypes and upgraded it with a pneumatic motor, so we can use our air compressor to do the pressing. This automation was important to me, since I think it’s helpful when you are pressing a new thing every two minutes.

Since we now felt like we came to the end of that prototype and that it was time to start the actual building of a press from scratch, I came up with a few concepts.
I think the easiest thing is to just go through it and explain my thoughts and then you can commment, if you have better ideas:

In the beginning I really wanted to go for a C-frame press, since I like how easily accessible it is from the front, but after running some force simulations on fusion I  realized how thick everything has to be to actually take the force of 10 tons. So I decided that it would be a liiiittle too heavy and look too scary looking for our purpose👻

So now the prototype I am going to build next is a simple build from threaded rod, steel profiles, which already a few DIY people out there made. Moreover I ordered a hydraulic jack with a pneumatic motor to take care of the automated pressing. (https://www.ebay.de/itm/Stempelwagenheber-hydraulisch-Stempelheber-Pneumatischer-Wagenheber-18000kg-18t/163639580393?hash=item2619add6e9:g:yuQAAOSw5gZcqwKq)
The threaded rod will be M20 and two on each side should be enough to take the force even at an angle. Additionally it’s cool, because it doesn’t require any welding, which might make it more accessible to some people.
You can see a screenshot of the CAD in the images.

I will keep you updated on the building. 👨‍🔧
Let me know what you think so far!

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06/05/2019 at 20:07
1

really neat, l like this design is close to what is in the shelf 🙂
just one thing about your welding notice, someone who can drill 20 mm holes through cast iron also has a welder, I bet my nasty little cat on it !

Other than that, no complain from my side; something which is always good to keep in mind is that ‘machine builders’ working for the bazar have it easy to turn this into a ‘pro’ machine. for instance, distances should be always chosen in a way that somebody can wrap this up with sheet metal (safety, aesthetics,..), and bolt it on support material (smaller cut offs); in a way he can do it him self or order it from special vendors (CNC metal bender machines, often equipped with laser cutters).
congrats, g

helper
06/05/2019 at 21:09
0

@pporg thanks! You might be right about the drilling/welding part;)
But maybe being able to disassamble the press might also come in handy at some point.

And if you are down to share a few of your machine builder tips about the distances and how to turn it into a “pro” machine, I’d be very open to already let them go into the design right now!

warrior
15/05/2019 at 20:17
0

Make the moulds round and get band heater around then to head them up

warrior
20/05/2019 at 18:02
2

I’m also very interested in this machine, especially because I also need to be able to press fooditems without them getting heated (like Duckweed ).

 

Any info on the specs needed for the compressor?

Or would any 8-9.5 bar compressor do?

dedicated
20/05/2019 at 19:31
3

It looks like one of these https://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-air-hydraulic-bottle-jack-94487.html or ebay/amazon equivalent.

It is funny, we were in a gardening store picking up some fertilizer and I saw they were selling a heated press for the errrrr…. cultivators…. I’m ignorant of that universe but these rosin presses are well finished heated presses that range from a few hundred https://www.rosineer.com/products/rosineer-rnr-mv2-manual-rosin-press-dab-machine-with-tools-for-best-plant-oil-extractions-dual-element-heating-plates-heat-plates-with-food-grade-stainless-steel-cover-easy-operation-with-manual?variant=40342718404 to a few thousand dollars. They look well capable of hot pressing things other than duckless duckweed.

helper
21/05/2019 at 12:23
1

Hello!
I’ll post an update about the progress of the press next, but to answer your questions first: @s2019 yes, it’s pretty much a hydraulic jack like the one at harborfreight. That’s the exact one we got: https://www.ebay.de/itm/163639580393
The one I chose is a little stronger, so I can actually test the limits of my frame at some point and also give some info of when it might break. Hopefully not too soon 😉
And about the rosin presses (from a pun-lover: props for the duckless duckweed pun ✊)
They also came up in my research and the heating is super nice to have, buuuut the work area is pretty small for most of them, so it would be hard to fit bigger moulds or objects. That’s why I decided to build one from scratch. Not to reinvent the wheel or anything like that 🙂

And @donald: The air pump of the jack works with a normal compressor at 8-9.5 bar. I also already tested a bit with limiting the pressure from the compressor to limit the pressure of the jack. But I’ll write more about it later on. But I’m super interested in the duckweed topic! Just started reading frogfalls paper. Did you manage to grow some in here in the Netherlands?

warrior
21/05/2019 at 14:07
0

@dasjannis thanks. I’m thinking about buying a compressor for some other applications. Just wanted it to be ‘future proof’ 😉

Re: Duckweed: I’m running a couple of tests (just got a new badge from England). I’ll post the results in the Duckweed topic, when I have them!

helper
22/05/2019 at 11:37
1

Hellohello!
So I finished building the press yesterday. After cutting the big U-Profiles it was actually pretty easy to build the frame. I used a wooden sheet to keep everything aligned while I fixed the threaded rods and added some spring washers to make sure the nuts won’t move when I’m going to apply pressure. For the moving part on top of the jack, I welded some steel tube to the U-Profile (@pporg: yeah, I ended up welding anyhow 😉)
In general I’m a little unsure which direction is the best way to use the profiles in. My logic tells me, that it makes most sense to press agains the walls and not the bottom (like between the top profile and the moving part), but the more I think about it, the less sure I am. Maybe someone has some input on it?

Moreover I build a new version of the heating elements, which I want to connect permanently to the press, so we don’t have any cables on the mould and it’s easier to clean. Since it’s quite hard to find insulation material that doesn’t cave under all the pressure, I came up with the idea of insulating it with vertical plywood and use different heights to build air chambers. It might look a little complicated, but it actually wasn’t too much work, when you can cut stuff with the table saw. In general I’m wondering though, how much insulation really makes a difference in the end and if there isn’t an easier solution out there. If you have an idea, let me know! 🙂

So next I’ll add the heating elements to the press and see how everything behaves under 8 tons of pressure. Wish me luck! 💪

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helper
22/05/2019 at 12:54
1

Oh and one more thing I’m still wondering how to do best: There is no pressure gauge on the hydraulic jack and it’s quite a messy process to put one in. (good example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBmxkWK_OFA)

I already tested limiting the jack’s force by limiting the air compressors pressure. Testing the actual force in combination with the other press and it’s pressure gauge gave me pretty precise numbers on how much air pressure will lead to how much hydraulic pressure with the jack I’m using (e.g. 4.5 bar gave 8 tons with our jack). More over you could put in a pressure release valve in front of the hydraulic jack in case you don’t want to lower the main pressure on the compressor. So I could provide a table with a conversion rate for this exact jack and the air compressor I’m using, but I’m sceptical if a hack like this is a good (and safe) way or if it would be better to include the process of adding the gauge to the jack in the how-to for the press.
Ooooor maybe someone has a better idea on how to messure and limit the force in general? I’d love to get some more input on it 🙂

dedicated
22/05/2019 at 17:24
2

Nice clean design. I wonder if you used an I-beam for the moving table and put the guide holes in the flanges, you could avoid the dreaded ” @pporg : yeah, I ended up welding anyhow” admission.

I wonder, when you add support feet to make it less likely to tip, you may be able to end support your bottom C-beam and then use a dial indicator on the center as your force measurement. Probably should run some numbers to make sure you don’t yield at 8 tons, though you could move the support points in as needed.

As far as using plywood as a isolator. It is not clear from your pictures how much is in contact with your hot plate but take a look at this page https://www.performancepanels.com/thermal-properties and see if the concerns apply.

Not sure what your temperature and force cycle timeline looks like but one option if you spend most of your time heating is to use some springs to support the hot plates and have the support transition to some lands (blocks) once you apply high pressure. I’m not sure about the concern of heated molds. The heaters are cheap and cable management should be doable.

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