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Official statement about extrusion to filament

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This topic contains 29 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  Yoel 12 months ago.

2
Anonymous

Official statement about extrusion to filament

03/05/2019 at 13:34

Hey there,
we would like to know the official statement about whether the extruder can extrude filament. To me it’s no but only because I don’t know a printer which can print certain recycled plastic. I know of pellet printers but that’s about it.

I am asking because we receive emails from clients and til now we still can’t answer them correctly.

Obviously the whole topic needs a lot of research and development and I am sure someone will figure this out (or not) one day. I am also aware that a ‘filament mile’ is around 2-5 meters long ..

So please if anyone could bring light into this story, we’d be very happy to have finally an answer for the users.

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starter
03/05/2019 at 14:37
1

ok, sorry to bring this up all over again but it keeps bumping all over the place, thats what we found :

– 4+ facebook entries asking the same, no answer
– 2-3+ instagram entries, asking the same, no answer
– around 5+ forum entries, asking the same, going nowhere but confirming a no, no answer
– around 20+ emails, asking the same, humble answer from us : NO

thanks, honestly, this story makes us and PP not looking ‘very well’
g

starter
03/05/2019 at 16:05
1

ok then, I think making a complete dossier about this story would be still the best; i guess pointing to ‘may be possible, but with lots of efforts and restrictions’ could still support PPs claim about this, plus it may engage creative folks – whose who ask : universities, fablabs – to get something done 🙂
deal,
g

warrior
05/05/2019 at 12:54
1

there is plenty of info in the reprap forum about making filament.  it requires a second filament winding device.  plenty of designs on thingiverse, and around the web.  This guy has lots of designs out.

 

Sample video

 

starter
05/05/2019 at 13:48
1

yes, please @btmetz, let’s narrow this to the constraints I’ve mentioned 🙂 We need here a clear YES, it’s ready to go, you can make filament, print it and sell it.
Of course DIYers have their machines to recycle their own scrap, the internet is full of that ( and i’ve seen it all). It’s about PP v3 extruder as said; thanks.

starter
06/05/2019 at 11:15
1

We’re compiling all the information about filament making and the PP v3.0 extruder into a dossier here. If you have more to add or change, please sign up on the page to add your contributions on the subject. We’re fully booked this year with other developments but we try to update the PP v3.0 extruder as best we can to make this possible, finally : professional heat bands (100 E the piece), fans with fully integrated PID controllers, temperature and forming equipment after the extruder; our aim is to get this to work below 3000 Euro invest.

warrior
06/05/2019 at 11:41
2

Yes and 99% of the actual extrusion for 3d printer filament is based on a add on filament winder.   the actual extrusion machine itself is not hard.  The real business comes in the winder as it pulls the filament to its proper size.

 

You will need a cooler, measuring device and winder that all work together.

 

This was demonstrated in I think v2.

 

Filastruder as a example had a add on project going, as severla others and well documented.  no problem to add their devices to the precious plastic extrusion machine.

starter
06/05/2019 at 12:07
1

@thanks @btmetz! I will try to merge your comments into the dossier as best I can. I’d like to eliminate all the “could, if, when” as best as possible and come up with proves just; that’s exactly what people asking me 🙂
g

warrior
06/05/2019 at 12:16
1

Yes.  Since the filament winder is kind of a done open source project, it is better to refer to the existing body of work rather than duplicate it.

 

Coming from the 3D printer world, being active in it for years, I guess for me filament is kind of a solved problem.

starter
06/05/2019 at 12:46
1

@btmetz, i really hope you had a look at this video here; To me there is literally nothing solved when it comes to present PP machines on the subject to the outer world; hobbyist may find this alright for some one-off projects but if it comes to find investors I can tell you, there was nothing but head shaking to our clients.

starter
07/05/2019 at 10:39
1

so there won’t be an official statement per-se, so we stick to what makes more sense to make a statement about the v3 extruder :

filament hobbyist use, yes
commercial or normal filament, no

ok then, topic can be closed 🙂
g

starter
15/05/2019 at 23:12
1

i’ve got some feedback from the industry about commercial filament : you need at least 44 professional machines at a price (cheapest, all-in-one machine) for ~8000 Euro to actually make money with filament 🙁

warrior
16/05/2019 at 14:52
1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU_goBExuZQ  See this

 

Winding device with puller for each extruder Since many people have written to me whether the winding device with the puller can not be built standing alone, I have decided to make the short hand still. Then everyone can attach Das to his existing extruder. Aufwickelvorrichtung mit Puller für jeden Extruder Da mir viele Leute geschrieben haben ob man die Aufwickelvorrichtung mit dem Puller nicht allein stehend bauen kann, habe ich mich entschlossen das kurzer hand noch zu machen. Dann kann jeder Das an seinen bestehenden Extruder anbringen. Here is the link for the STL files and Excel: https://drive.google.com/drive/folderhttps://www.instagram.com/werbewunder/

warrior
16/05/2019 at 14:55
0

this is in german.  can attach to the PP extrusion machine no prob  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YKrHoKZFDU

starter
16/05/2019 at 15:25
1

@btmetz, yeah; youtube is full of that stuff but in 99% there is no quality audit or feedback; making things up is usually not a problem; selling it successfully is ! I mean; if an industrial filament mile is about ~8000, how you wanna possibly beat the results with a home grown setup below 1k ?

warrior
17/05/2019 at 02:42
2

Quite simple really, You trade hard work and your skills vs paying someone else to do it.

 

Do not so quickly dismiss this guys work.

 

Filastruder for example is well documented.  There are quite a few people.  Built it, make it your own and run with it.

 

Personally where I live, there is not enough market for me to pursue 3D printing.  Did it for a couple years and went broke.+

 

https://www.filastruder.com/products/filawinder  here is a off the shelf unit for you

starter
17/05/2019 at 13:11
0

ok, i see, back to square one …
how about we open finally another topic ‘Making filament with v3 ‘ ? I don’t see much progress other than stripping down the v3 extruder, make the entire re-work (professional heatbands, PIDS, cooling systems, mount) and work out all manuals and step by step instructions, something I can finally give to our clients without worrying they get screwed with 2-3 K invest 🙂

What’s even more challenging is to workout screw specs per plastic type though, those will go hand in hand with motor specs ,… After all best possible is done under this conditions, we can work out the waterbaths, pull system, PLCs, etc..

After the main sections are worked out, our 3dprint guru can start working out printer specs…

g

starter
17/05/2019 at 13:17
0

now we’re looking at 2-3 months of work for 2 teams and a couple thousand euros of invest (materials, manuals,…). I wasn’t aware about when i saw those fancy pictures on preciousplastic.com, I though it just ‘works’ just as the pictures suggested, lol

 

starter
17/05/2019 at 15:38
0

@btmetz, I started the research here. If you want to join, signup on that page, we send you then all the other infos like the corresponding slack channel 🙂

starter
17/05/2019 at 16:04
0

short update looking at the sections and components :

extrusion : 2000 – 3000 euro
hopper: 400 Euro
dryer : 300 Euro
main control – interface : 1000 Euro

unknown : feed, water baths, pull system (forming), spool winder, but i guess it’s adding another 1000 Euro easily

looks like this can be done for around 4000-5000 euro, that’s good news since it’s still 3000 less compared to the cheapest commercial machine i’ve found so far.

warrior
18/05/2019 at 03:03
1

Then go for it.  If you are going to monetize and sell it, then maybe you should do the documentation and experimentation.

 

Frankly I have zero interest in making filament as the market locally is too small.

 

I also have the automated injection molder to work on and the polyester fiber project.

 

I just pointed you to the work of others who have already released stuff.

starter
18/05/2019 at 08:11
0

yeah, thanks. apparently we need something solid, big, working with recycled plastic, etc… barcelona and the rest of pp is full of companies, labs, etc… asking us ‘…does it?’

starter
18/05/2019 at 08:29
0

there is btw. one provider on alibaba who has lots of the parts needed, even twin screws for quite cheap.

helper
26/05/2019 at 07:05
2

https://studio.youtube.com/video/-4ELb3uyVSI/edit

This is the current one that i am working on. I need to add production grade screw however i lost access to my 4th axis add on to make a custom screw for it so i am going to use modified wood auger for now. Currently i have the winder and spooler working. I am now working on getting my working dimensional control to drive the spooler wrapping speed using PID loop then i am done. This is a test stand the final version will be 12″ x 12″ x 5.5″ box super tiny.

helper
26/05/2019 at 07:07
1

I am also still working on opening up my first version of the extruder (Multistruder) as open source the idea is that it is supposed to be a injection machine and a high quality filament extruder all in one machine. I am adding the feedback loop for diameter control and the option to work as an injection moulder currently. But that one you should be able to build in most oversea’s country pretty easily and cheaply.

starter
26/05/2019 at 13:06
1

just to make it a little more clear; doing a PLA/ABS filament extruder is one thing; not that difficult; the other thing is to print recycled plastic. As far i recon, the only story I heard regarding filament via PP was making LDPE  filament (see bazar), but the only problem is that you can’t really print well nor good things with that stuff.
vanplastik is the only successor i know off when it comes to PP; they print furniture, but using only ~10% recylced plastic, for obvious reasons.

warrior
26/05/2019 at 19:58
0

Thanks for the link to vanplestik. In their product descriptions it says 100% recycled. I think the boutique furniture and decor is a place where a workspace can do well.

helper
29/05/2019 at 08:07
1


This is the correct link.
As long as you get it small enough it is not that much different. I will probubly have a different hopper as shavings dont really roll as well into barrel compared to the virgin resins. as the current hopper design is for pellets.

starter
29/05/2019 at 09:48
1

hey, i am no longer watch this topic, it’s has been answered so far. about making DIY filament, let’s open a more dedicated topic just. I captured so far the findings in the library / resource section so far.

starter
30/05/2019 at 18:59
0

Does anyone know have experience with DIY filament extruders?  Familiar with pricing?  Quality?  etc.

 

Thanks everyone!

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