PP myth busting, public FAQ
we’re getting quite exhausted and overwhelmed with the people calling us for machines and answering their questions, putting us in a very uncomfortable position, on a daily base; that are quite some hours per week. so we don’t know other than building a FAQ but that would also involve to correct all the misleading downplays and just plain incorrect statements / half truths by PP Eindhoven on the social net and on youtube.
I actually dont even know where to start but I think its best to address first what is always being asked :
– Filament : no
– PET : rather not, it’s @#[email protected]#% machine killer just
– saving the world, yeah, sure. … lol, just for fun
– shampoo bottles : hard job
– effort, energy, time involved: much higher than illustrated
– easy: no, not all
– invest: high
– running fees: high
– maintenance plan : expensive, complicated
Honestly, I don’t know what to tell them other than the truth, as always; this isn’t pp.com baby, it’s about saving others people efforts, invests in pretty harsh situations; they deserve some truth and honesty. Those people are mostly on islands and and/or have indeed serious trouble with plastic, simple and plain desperate. Apparently they look at PP as a way out and we’re in the middle and have to take the bitter pill (FOR F**** HOURS) to tell them that are rather toys or lets say hobbyist achievements.
I am aware we don’t get any support, help or even the slightest decency to address those problems, despite we are supporting the PP project with thousands of Euros in the 5 digit range since long; worst even, we get kicked out because the ‘silent’ ‘majority’ doesn’t have the balls to step forward and help just, instead they ask for our ban in the forum again. sad sad sad …
However, would be great to figure out a general guidance/FAQ we can place in front and so we can focus on the real problem of PP : better machines.
If there is any other myth buster, FAQ’able thing to add, let me know please. I am aware this isn’t a subject for the more experienced ones who can deal with flaws, nor folks who play with the material around, etc…
The “I’m new, I want to get started saving the world” checklist
Model business plan..i.e. Reality check
The “What can go wrong” list
V3 machine capabilities
Case study examples of actual workspaces (if possible include one with positive cash flow – unsubsidized)
-Are plastic fumes dangerous: yes, especially when burned.
-Are the machines ‘kids safe’: no, not as they are
Once there is A Faq all the things that can be done will also be listed of course.
Luckily regarding the safety there is a kind of Catch-22 in place:
If you’re not a trained proffesional, you won’t be able to build the machine.
If you can build them, you already know how to handle (potentionally) dangerous equipment.
Unfortunately this also means there are a lot of half build machines out there and/or a lot of workshops that quit after their funding runs out.
All the information is out (t)here on the Forum, it’s only difficult to find (I’m still discovering new info on a dailly basis (and loving it)). It’s easier to start a new topic, asking for information than looking for it yourself, which often happens. Even I am answering questions on a daily basis
Normally I should be able to say “RTFM” or “Faq off” (with a wink 😉 ), I can’t (yet).
I am working on it though.
I need all this information also for myself, so I might as well try to organise and publish it along the way.
The Mythbusting “don’t try this at home” should become “first read this Faq”.
Again, for every don’t there are also at least 3 do’s, a lot of which don’t even require a machine. These should also be in the faq, as they have an even lower threshold to start recycling / working with plastic.
Maybe a seperate ‘faq’-forum, with strict moderation could be the answer.
The Topic would be the Question / answer, which can be adjusted (by the moderator) when needed. In the replies further questions can be asked (and answered) in a public discussion.
If the Answer is a ‘negative’, the same discussion can be used to figure out how to make this answer a possitive.
hey, thanks guys ! that helps. I think I will start the route for newbies here :
1. What precious plastic is and can : a graduation project of DH, ….hobbyist achievements stuff, etc…
1.2. getting started / general info: machines, workspace, safety , metrics (consumption,…)
1.3 … event more details, ie: success stories, revenue,…
1.4 educational stuff
2. What precious plastic is or can NOT : a replacement or alternative for public recycling
2.1 details / info about steps to recycle at scale
or something like that
@donald, lets put heads together soon, I have sorted out a neat FAQ component for pp.org, for now at least; i am also playing with the idea to have an image map or interactive walk-through for all machines / workspace, in a way the user can see outcomes, KPIs, problems, etc…
@s2019, sold! will take it on
@donald I’m not sure I would depend on complexity providing the safety filter in the machine builds. The compression oven and injection machines are within the DIY capability even without broad technical expertise. Judging by the number of “melting plastic in your kitchen toaster” videos, the safety risk is out there.
@pporg thanks for taking this on. If you are planning on hosting this on your site, that would be great. I truly appreciate Dave Hakkens providing this forum and the current moderators flushing out the spam, but as a data repository, it is fairly transient. I’ve seen posts where the forum is to be ended and replaced with some other platform, though the V4 folder does not have much information on the data architecture of this new platform. My expectation is that if the V4 team gets immersed in Project Kamp, it is such a large endeavor that it will be all consuming for the foreseeable future. So managing this information on a site that is unaffected is a great offer.
Let me know if I can help with some of the content.
True, some of these videos really deserve a Darwin Award .
Fact it’s not happening with the PP-machines is simply because as the danger level rises, so does the complexity of the machine.
It would be like reducing the amount of car accidents by only being able to start a car by solving a rubics cube.
Not saying we should rely on complexity for safety, just making a prediction: once complexity goes down the proverbial doodoo will start hitting the rotors , like with the afore mentioned toasters.
Easilly solved with a disclaimer (use at your own risk, leave building to professionals, don’t use when intoxicated, call your mother once a week she misses you etc.) but a Faq would be the more user friendly way to go.
@s2019, by the end of the month precious-plastic.org is ready for user submissions, partners and contributors, multi-lingual and all the neat stuff you’d expect; see picture below. a neat interface to make really sweat interfaces with drag and drop widget palette. there are also templates for ‘machine’, ‘component’, and now ‘FAQ’ and soon ‘knowledge base article’. the content will be translated automatically by a service (real people) as soon it’s marked for ‘ready’. the FAQ section seems to be more crucial and should be illustrative as possible, people seem really that lazy to read. looking at your ‘desktop injection’ work, i think we need another ‘item’ : tutorial or ‘project’ (solved by PP Eindhoven in v4). for now you can signup and toy around if you like (have to approve you manually, we are flooded by spam bots). we will add the more basic FAQ skeleton this week.
You know, in my short time digging through these forums, I found that there used to be a wiki for all of this, only the person hosting it couldn’t afford to maintain the servers and it all kind of fell through when others tried to offer domains/temporary hosting (or maybe I’m remembering it a little off).
Your site could be the answer to compiling community information that can be easily referenced and discussed for the sake of improvement. Maybe One Army will be the platform we need. Only time will tell.
Most important improvement needs to be that there’s no longer a one point failure point for the information on this (open source) forum to disappear, like the Wiki did.
I’m also data-mining the forum, but my output won’t be a website, but a collection of datasheets with public information that can be shared with anybody who has the need for it (a library of sorts), including a way to update and exchange information amongst platforms.
This would also allow for ‘other’ language forums, within the same community.
Decentralizing the forum is the only way it can truly grow on a global scale, as now it’s drowning in it’s own success.
Decentralizing would also mean there is no single point of attack to shut down the information, should we (as a community) become succesful. We are part of a revolution after all, and why build an Army, if there is no need for defence?
Definitely. In one of his YouTube videos, Dave actually said pretty much the same thing. He said he doesn’t want people to have to rely on this one source for their plastic recycling workspaces. It’s the reason that they don’t sell the parts for the machines themselves in the Bazar. Dave had offered to provide a subdomain for the wiki before because of the support for this kind of initiative from the community.
Any of you who are involved in the preservation and collaboration of information regarding this plastic recycling should definitely share anything you come up with in the forums. We would all be happy to see your work come to fruition.
Maybe one day I can quit being useless and actually help 😑
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