Shredder and Extrusion – industrial electronics
This topic contains 20 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by Anonymous 1 month ago.
Hey there,as promised there will be some guidance for electrics for PP machines.
Currently this in an experimental stage and I am here to collect more feedback and recommendations. The motivation is primarily quality, standardization, certification, max. machine safety and of course ready to use open-source plans and drawings.
Here is the wiki page (in progress)
That are the features we’re looking for:
– direction control for the motor : forward/reverse
– auto-reverse using a hall and/or proximity sensor as rotary encoder (like on CNC/Lathe spindles)
– acoustic and visual alarm for errors extra safety features : hopper or enclose open
– circuit breakers maximum safety & security, eligible for schools and subject to some certification tbc ..
And here are the components for each sections (please click the pictures, the forum software is cropping them) :
Control – Panel
1. VFD : we chose Omron for max. reliability and flexibility. This brand would allow also power profiles in later versions, perfect in situations using solar. It supports Modbus.
2. 3 Phase motor circuit breaker
3. Amp/Kwh metering. I am still thinking to read this meter for triggering alarms in case there is an energy budget
4. – 6 : breakers for all sub circuits
7. Power supply for digital / DC components
8. SSR relays for the heat-bands
9. terminal blocks (distribution for power and data cables)
10. the magic box, making it all happening. I am still undecided but it will be Arduino based, using screw shields and an LCD for low-level settings / adjustments like disabling/enabling features
1. Emergency switch
2. Power on for shredder
3. Power on for extrusion
4. Direction switch for motor
5. Status light for errors (max. auto-reverse trials exceeded and jammed, over-heated, over-torque)6. Status light : system ok and running
7. Reset button: this will reset the system (red?)
8. PID controllers
9. Key lock for the entire system, optional numeric keypad, voice or finger print and eye scanner (kidding)
10. Acoustic alarm
Auxiliary / Peripheral
1. proximity sensor(s), essentially to make auto-reverse happening but there are two more, one in the enclosure and one at the hopper. Possible more for other enclosures containing moving parts as couplings.
2. Another emergency switch near the hopper
3. temperature sensor(s), one to avoid motor overheating, and one to read the ambient temperature (in cases like extreme summer and sun exposure)
It doesn’t look like but your are looking now at around 600 – 800 Euro in materials, 2 days work, and one-time 2600 Euro for QA reviews. I have no clear idea yet how the CE or self certification process is but I assume it’s in the 5000 Euro range.
If I forgot anything or you can spot other safety improvements, let me know please.
Boah, another big money sucker just bumped up. The regular enclosures with door and key are in the 120 Euro range and plastic version with acrylic front-panel near 150 Euro and the only real suitable candidate left is a good PC case for around 70 Euro which has 2 coolers, air filters and a good bunch of cables and USB outlets already. I ordered this one here for production, the “Carbide 275R” and it’s right on spec, 21x 45×46 cm (I will need it bigger soon).
Doing those housings from metal sheets can last up to 5 – 8 hours and it’s far from perfect, despite you have the best tools. A laser cut version is in the 50 Euro range … also far from great looking and working. Any suggestions are welcome 🙂
The blue LEDs and clear sides on the gamer boxes are pretty cool. On the other hand there must be piles of used PC cases in the electronics recycling world. They may need a splash of paint or a new fan and hopefully don’t affect certification. I think the customers would appreciate that some part of the system was repurposed.
On the other hand, heat pipe or liquid cooling of the SSR’s would look really cool.
Yeah, gamer cases can get ultra trippy 🙂 The first ever enclosure I’ve ever done for a shredder & extrusion build came out actually quite well – despite crappy wiring.
And yup, as soon we have a sort of platform and standard size (ATX, ATX mini, ATX micro – in tons, everywhere), we can build on it – that’s where open-source starts paying out, you build, I extend : more juice for everyone 🙂
The Carbide 275R is also neat because you can take off the feets and make a horizontal build – optimal for our portable designs. The glass window has also it’s use : impress your buddies or just for education.
I am quite stunned how far electronics can go for an extruder or/and shredder and I haven’t even scratched the surfaces yet :-O
That’s the more basic (shredder & extrusion combo) & cheap version (~250e) and there isn’t any space left. The max board size for the Carbid275R is 37cm by 37cm.
The case is dream, easy to get rid of stuff, coolers super quite and dust filters everywhere.
I just noticed there is bunch of special equipment you need as ‘pro’, precision torque screw driver; easily adds another 300 🙂
still, kinda PP Porn 🙂
Finally, I’ve got the DIN rails installed and it took a good amount of time to find the drawings for the ATX motherboards. I am pretty happy with the results and the solution is scalable – up & down (ATX mini). The more difficult part was making precise holes which fit to the ATX mount specs. Luckily, with a height gauge this is no problem, a must have tool for everyone 🙂
Btw. we do the documentation with Fusion-360 & Eagle, both free and enable easy customization by the community or even experts during the review process.
If anyone has feedback on the front-panel layout, now is the time!
Here, line by line (each section is specific to one machine, in this case we have the controls for both : shredder / extrusion) :
1. Main control (top): power button, direction button
2. Status indicators and reset button: in case of error, it will indicated
3. Extrusion controls : this looks a little lost but I am ok for now. In later or higher end version this might be replaced with the touch panel.
4. VFD control : this will be removed and replaced by display/touch panel some time soon.
5. Knob/Dial : I am trying to make this as main interface, just like in a modern car : select & edit a parameter and confirm with push. I am still looking for such thing in the shelf. I think somebody here did something similar from scratch. This of course needs still a display..
see you in a bit, quite some fun btw. 🙂
@dirkvanvroeger : happy to see your input for the enclosure.
Finally, got it all in a box. This is the most basic version for a extruder and/or shredder controller.
Even without auto-reverse and status lights, contactors & circuit controllers it’s going to make you busy easy for 2-5 days. It’s THAT easy, lol.
Anyways, looks like there is easily 10 more days to document all stages: shopping, case build, assembly, testing.
Next week there are the big tests. I hope this thing will keep shredding without any assistance.
See you in a while; there will be 3 versions of it 🙂
Looks clean. Where does the big red button go?
For the screen and select knob, could you use one of the typical reprap screens?
there are red 2 power buttons (silly, cable and power wise) and a red status light and a red reset button for overheat (motor & room) and/or jammed for real.
Reprap screen, yup. that would do. the menu code is relative easy. I wanna play first with touch screens and PLCs a little and downgrade to DIY from there. I gonna try this approach. May be easier to maintain at the end on my end; not sure yet.
Sorry, I thought Item 1 in you first picture was an emergency stop button. I was wondering if you put it on the control box or up near the mechanisms.
Ah, I see. The emergency buttons go on the top and one at the hopper. Luckily the auto-reverse controller covers also hands in the shredder and so even an unconscious person’s hand will slip out thanks to gravity 🙂 Kidding, that reminds to add a bypass button to disable the hopper-open sensor. The 3devo grinder btw. got only CE because of the hopper doesn’t allow any hand inside. Of course everybody removes that hopper right after un-boxing.
Yes, need to accommodate the CE inspector’s safety tie (or pony tail), though the Digital testing of the auto reverse sounds extreme.
One more proximity sensor to add! I finally found a hopper design – DIY compatible – which can provided a way to recognize ‘hopper open’. Now I just need to find a fast opener for more convenience; a wing nut is fine too but I’d prefer something more quick. Anyone has and idea what could be in the hardware store – something which doesn’t involve things like a nut ?
“something which doesn’t involve things like a nut”
Well, a bright orange pair of Vise Grips? https://www.amazon.com/Grip-Curved-Locking-Pliers-GR11105/dp/B008U4M0LU
If you are going to slot the top hole, then a stud (maybe a captive one that can pivot) and an orange knob might be easiest. You won’t have to unscrew the knob very far.
@s2019, perfect , looks like a good device to be used in many places, great. thanks (it’s sometimes really hard to find stuff as foreigner on shopping sites)
Actually, something like this may be a little stronger https://alexnld.com/product/4pcs-201-stainless-steel-spring-toggle-latch-catch-hasp-clamp-clip-duck-billed-buckles/ . Looks like it should be in the cabinet hardware section of the store.
To find stuff I don’t remember the name of I usually guess and google images. I either find it or get totally distracted with some other cool item.
Thanks for all that info…although most of it goes over my head.
In Australia we have some pretty strong regulations around elecrical equipment and the safety requirements for a school here seem to change in each state which is why we build “to order”. (What suits one group is not suitable for another group)
But…. every state has one thing in common as a safety feature and that is that the hopper cannot be removed “by hand” it must require a tool, those luggage clips would not pass safety requirements here. (We use nut and bolt, its 10 seconds to undo but requires a spanner so little fingers cant open it by accident)
Worksafe (our local safety officers) came through our work space to asses safety for school groups/community tours, I would be happy to share their report and recommendations if it is any use to anyone?
I think you are doing a great job btw, and I dont expect you to make things work for Australia (that’s my job and my electricians job) but I thought it might be useful info for other Aussies.
‘over my head’, yeah, not just yours. There are 50-70% of clients who need certificates or at least safety issues addressed. We call them here the invisible and kinda denied and/or abandoned ‘majority’ of PP. Nice folks with often too big wallets – and us with a too big heart – in the middle 🙂
I just got into this a few weeks ago. We spent a little fortune to try different things and make this work in production and honestly – I feel still like a little baby in that and there is insane much left to do, in many aspects.
In the picture below you see our more popular product – basically just some leg work – still kinda concept but more or less 33% is done of what a ‘safe’ and portable & modular machine could look like – at least to me. There are around 6 safety new features in there, just with the software alone.
Depending on needs, I am adding just more safety shields and fume extraction as addons – much like when you order a car with options.
‘reports & regulations’ : yes please. my head is actually smoking from watching endless control-panel wiring and other industrial commercials til darn but I’d love to get over it.
good point btw. about the hopper bolts – I will leave the clip version for the DIY camp of PP 🙂
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