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Shredder box – assembly guide – v3.1

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This topic contains 20 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  Stan 3 months ago.

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Anonymous

Shredder box – assembly guide – v3.1

14/06/2019 at 15:12

I started dumping of footage about the shredder v3 fixes and also addressing issues in an assembly guide. It’s work in progress but more or less the hard part is done; what’s left is a complete guide for the 3phase wiring, over-torque and auto-reverse code as well an updated component source list.

I am sure the generosity of @btmetz and @andyn and eventually others can add more on the subject .. 😉
We already tried multiple times to merge hotfixes/pull-request in the download kit but PP Eindhoven seems on permanent vacation.

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new
14/06/2019 at 15:52
1

btw. the page (full fledged multi – user/language) needs a new maintainer; there are still 3 TB being processed to unveil all connected spots on the map such as injection molding, etc… in a user friendly interface but the hard work is done : internal items as guide, components, machines, faq,… with templates and neat interface to make neat write ups.

warrior
14/06/2019 at 17:04
2

Nice topic. Super useful. And good news guenter. We started working on adding improvements for the shredder in the download kit. But we first want to make/test the shredder before we add something new to the download kit. We are thinking of having a 2.0 and 2.1 rigid version. Mainly because (believe it or not) some people actually like the simple v2.0 version. We see 2.1 as a stronger more solid version. We’re browsing the forums for feedback.
Currently on the list

– Increase mesh thickness
– Bigger axe
– Automatic reverse if shredder yams
– Clamp blades so they don’t scratch walls
– Hardox blades?

Let me know if you guys have ideas or suggestions to add!

warrior
15/06/2019 at 01:52
1

Hardox blades would be awesome.. except that for some reason, armor plate hardox aka ar500 etc is only in imperial measurement thickness.  I have checked Ali Express, Philippines, and US suppliers.  I can re-design the files, but that also takes money to make prototypes and testing.

 

Second, the Laser DXF files are 165mm wide machine but the cad solid model and some of the layout drawing pdf like the shredder axle are only 145mm.

 

Regarding the hex shafting, I went up to 32mm (1.25 inch) the 25mm shafting was simply not available locally.

 

With electronics, I have upgraded to a transfer switch to reverse the 5hp single phase motor. Sadly the transfer switch cost more than the laser cut parts per machine.  There is a second option to do a magnetic contact switch, however after doing the math, assembly time etc, the cost difference is less than 20usd vs a made in Europe 3 way transfer switch.  Kraus & Naimer brand.   The transfer switch allows us to reverse the motor to clear jams.  As of now I am still having difficulty shredding PET gatorade bottles and similar Danon water bottles.

 

A blade re-design needs to be made that also does not compromise the ability to shred plastic bags, and sachet packages.

 

The majority of users buying shredders here (not counting college thesis projects) specifically buy the precious plastic shredder because it can handle foam, and thin film plastics. High speed shredders are unable to handle these materials because the screens get clogged.

 

My clients omit the screen, and pass the material 2 times thru the machine to get small sizes.

 

Over here, because of logistics issues, I have at least for now abandoned the welded tube/angle bar frames, and went with laser cut/cnc bent sheet metal frames and a pulley/sprocket reduction vs a gearbox.  this results in a large cost savings.  Also single phase 5hp gear motors are only available by special order, which means that one would have to use a inverter which combined makes over 1000USD cost savings per machine.

 

If I was in a place with a lack of advanced manufacturing, maybe a frame made from the pre-drilled slotted racking and or drilling angle bar and bolting together would be a better option than welding?  Without a good MIG or TIG welder, I am having trouble making machines that look and function well with my inverter stick welder.

 

As is we are retailing v3.1 machines locally for $1670usd with 5hp motors.  realizing a cost savings over Chinese made shredders of nearly 300usd per unit.  I would love to be able to lower the costs a lot more if I was able to sell more machines.  However also with the small r&d projects here refining what I call my v3.1 machine there just is not enough budget at this time.

 

 

warrior
15/06/2019 at 06:19
2

Perhaps the forum would benefit from a V3 lessons learned section that collects the experience base and upgrades in a similar way as the V4 development section.

new
15/06/2019 at 09:50
0

great, thanks for all the input; i wrote a follow up here. I’d like to emphasize that there are 2 different scenarios :
– DIYers with medium/low quality tooling; I estimated this segment as 30% of the audience; well and of course it’s counter part, the normal user base who’d like to do something, have a budget but no idea idea what, how, etc…
– Professionals who have to provide warranty and quality components and need to keep package size small. our smallest shredder/extrusion pack is 75 Kg, 80x60x45 cm, on Euro palette; shipping is around 100 – 200 Euro

then there are different types of motors coming with that scenarios :

– single phase : expensive to control
– 3 phase & inverter, slightly more expensive but more effective and easy to control (auto-reverse, speed,..)
– gas motors

short remarks :
– hardened steel : is hard to process, if you have nominal errors, I’d be screwed
– clamping the blades: i would have love that, seems the biggest improvement regarding durability and stability, right after bigger shafts
– prices: @btmetz: yes, it’s expensive stuff after all; alone the drive part here in Europe is about ~1000 Euro for new components; we have to add not just labor but also fees to keep the shop/machines up and running, also logistic isn’t exactly cheap

I agree with all points, thanks to Eindhoven picking this up.

warrior
16/06/2019 at 03:19
1

laser cutting hardened steel and plasma cutting is the same as mild in my experience.  I have made a lot of knives and armor vest inserts from the material in the past.

 

The reverse for a single phase motor was fairly simple, just a transfer switch.

 

I had one running yesterday on a machine that I spent a few hours torture testing.

 

Had a few issues with the chain sprocket and shredder performing poorly.  Traced back to machinist not making the sprocket to spec, (repaired by TIG and re–boring the shaft.  The second was the bolts for the shredder bearings were loose.

 

During initial assembly the bolts have to be a little bit loose to turn and then as the machine is run, the bolts are to be tightened as it wears in.  Someone forgot to tighten the bearing so there was some issues.

 

The ability to reverse the motor was so good.  Procedure during jam.  Switch off motor.  Turn transfer switch to reverse position.  Turn on again to clear jam.  Turn off, change transfer switch to forward, and turn back on again.

 

Only once did I have to repeat this more than once to clear a jam yesterday on a particularly thick garotrade bottle that was folded over into 4 thicknesses.

 

In regards to inverters and 3 phase, I just can not justify the added 600usd cost (my cost) to a shredder.

new
16/06/2019 at 07:37
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thanks @btmetz ! just for your notice, we use inverters straight from beginning; here in Europe they are around 80-120 Euro for up to 3Kw, 200 Euro for 4-5 Kw. In Asia they should be even cheaper. The beauty of it is not only having all inputs/outputs for reverse, speed, emergency switch as well over-torque signal at 5V/low amps but also the functions for controlling the motor very well : acceleration, … At the end you will have it all cheaper than mocking a single phase motor with high voltage/amperage switches and relays.

I’ve tested so far the auto-reverse code (arduino), it works like charm and removes a lot of hassle using this thing. I am uploading this soon into the library. I am still looking for an analog solution which can go on PCB; it’s actually stupid simple. Doing this for high-power makes me headache but maybe this can be easy too using relays (still lots of $$).

Speaking of sprockets, I was wondering to build a device from 2 bike sprockets running a chain (bike) along a straight hopper. Along the chain there are flexible metal sticks (classic music wire, 15 cm long used to make springs) which push the plastic down into the hopper and then leave the hopper again. So there are slots along the hopper where the sticks can enter and leave.

so just to sync : inverter and eletronics is about 120E for 3Kw, 200E for 4Kw; motor goes here almost per kilogram, 2Kw is near the same as 4Kw, around 100-200 E, 3 phase. The only real expensive thing is the transmission and honestly I found your sprocket drive really exciting; despite I get a heart-attack looking at it 🙂

warrior
16/06/2019 at 12:46
1

I can buy cheap inverters from China, but they do not last very long with heavy duty motors.

 

I changed over to Delta brand inverters.

 

Bike sprocket is way too light.  I am using type 50 chain sprocket, and double pulley B type belts.  Basically all agricultural rice mill parts.

 

See attached pictures and the schematic for a selector switch.

 

Attachments:
new
16/06/2019 at 13:48
0

@btmetz,

we use original Hyang inverters, and sometimes second hand Omron, rock solid also for CNC spindels; hadn’t a single problem, til 6Kw, work fantastic also on solar arrays, they have up-times near 5 years.

i think we understood each other wrong. i mentioned the sprockets for another device but let me elaborate this in another thread (‘automatic hopper plunger’).

I will try to harvest your details you’ve wrote in the forum about your sprocket gearing and the gas motor and put it in the library under ‘variants‘. You have a more detailed product/project page ?

thanks man, much appreciated.

new
16/06/2019 at 21:59
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article updated for ‘sieve’ and ‘hexbar – sleeves’ remarks. next on the list : single phase motors, wiring, 3 phase & inverter guide.

warrior
17/06/2019 at 09:27
1

interesting how you did the bolts.

 

I changed the bearing bolts to m14, and TIG weld grade8 stud bolts both front and back.  I cut off the head of the bolt first so it is flush on the inside before welding.

 

No fill rod on the bearing side.

new
17/06/2019 at 10:25
0

yeah, M12-M14 is definitely better 😉

warrior
18/06/2019 at 03:31
0

Do you have the DXF for the improved cutter blades?  Have to send in files to laser today, I really would love to try out the new blade design.

new
18/06/2019 at 10:38
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no, i have only the laser files for 32mm uploaded. for now, i can only recommend to file at least a 1.5 mm edge on the tip, with a 5-10 degree twist.

starter
19/06/2019 at 08:26
1

Lots of great work on this.

I am looking at using a belt pulley system for coupling the motor to the shredder as a way to limit any damage from any shock loads. Is there a reason I am missing that this is not a method that is used?

new
19/06/2019 at 09:25
0

hey,
sorry but your request isn’t in the scope of the subject. this here is only about the actual shredder – box. the drive part and it’s variants deserves a few more pages. however, i am not aware that a shock absorber is really needed. to minimize damage it’s best to follow the guide (32 mm hexbar, proper mount, proper frame) as well the mentioned over-torque/stall protection via inverter & arduino (guide in progress).

warrior
20/06/2019 at 03:35
0

Re stall detection + reverse.

 

I have heard from  tech a one of my clients that they use components from a local company that has the anti motor stall-auto reverse in a single unit for single phase motors.

 

I will be persuing this as soon as I can.

 

Meanwhile.  Yesterday I ran my first double shredder.  Not the first set of parts I have made, but the first I personally assembled.

 

Interestingly the double size seems to shred plastic easier than the smaller unit with the same 5hp motor and gear ratio.

 

We shredded for about 45 min last night of various foams, plastics, and cardboard.

 

Also could someone post some dxf of photos of the improved blade designs.  I already have modded my personal files for the last 20 shredders to 32mm (1.25inch) hex shafting, however the other blade geometries remain the same.

 

 

new
20/06/2019 at 11:43
0

hey @btmetz. please find below the cutting (manual, round file goes best).
i took good guesses with the help of the machinery handbook regarding cutting  angles. the cutting edge is more or less 1.3 – 1.6 mm. there is a decrease of drawn amps of 18% – 25% and it’s noticeable better with harder/thicker stuff.

I am updating the guide page (using your input as well) over the weekend ( still have to cleanup the mess of the teletappi attack, lol and not so lol)

warrior
25/06/2019 at 00:28
1

I tried a different method for the blades yesterday.  I ground the side of the blades to a point from one side so it was more of a pointy chisel like a lathe tool.

 

We shredded a very large sack of material in a hour.  It handled material almost as fast as we could feed the machine.  The only difficulties were LDPE plastic bags.

 

HDPE shreds fine, LDPE is more greasy and can build up in the machine.

 

A few times I had to reverse the machine to clear it out, and a few times it jammed, but it was really a huge improvement.

 

I think next up changing from case hardened blades to armor plate.  Although will have to re-draw the cad files as the material is only available in imperial thickness

warrior
25/06/2019 at 00:56
1

The teeth on my small paper shredder are V shaped with two sharp points. I assume they did some optimization to minimize the torque required. Perhaps getting a sharp point initial penetration is helpful.

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