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Step #2 – Finding a piece of land

This topic contains 58 replies, has 37 voices, and was last updated by  Facuabdala 15 hours ago.

15
Dave Hakkens davehakkens

Step #2 – Finding a piece of land

20/05/2018 at 15:07

Hey!

Before we go in details about a piece of land, make sure to watch the step #1 video on projectkamp.com and read this post here.

This topic is to discuss options to find a piece of land, i’m sure there are many places available but hard to find them all from a laptop in the Netherlands. This this topic is to share ideas, sites, listings, pictures of land that is available. You might even have a friend that has a piece available.

Specially in early stage we are quite easy, never bought a piece of land so would like to explore options. A few (flexible) guidelines though.
– Netherlands would be cool, otherwise or Europe.
– Close to an airport or train station (max 1,5 hour)
– Enough surrounding green land around it.
– River in it would be sick! Otherwise we will digg a lake 😀
– Possible to live there with multiple people
– Max €80K, i guess…

Hopefully you guys are able to help out! The person that finds the land gets its own statue with name on the land. Eternal Project Kamp fame ✌️

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helper
20/05/2018 at 16:17
4

@davehakkens, Love the idea! I used to spend my summers on an ecovillage in Scotland learning about sustainable sewage treatment and sustainable architecture. I assume that has something to do with why I ended up becoming an architect!

I sadly don’t know of any land in Europe but if you need any help when it comes to sustainable architecture and building count me in!

I can’t wait to see how this turns out!
Rory

new
20/05/2018 at 16:48
3

Very unprofessionally typing from work, during work… Love the idea, I heard about some island for sale in Finland. For cheap! Message later xD

starter
20/05/2018 at 17:00
11

That’s awesome, Dave! We are together on this as friends and I just bought a piece of land with this purpose here in Brazil. Looking to learn and contribute in this journey. Good luck! I’ll try to be more active here as the threads come up. I’ve attached some photos of the land.

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warrior
20/05/2018 at 17:02
4

sick land @ftavares, looks incredible!

p3p
starter
20/05/2018 at 17:04
7

Argentina here! North, 30 hectares. Widely available for intentional comunity projects.

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new
20/05/2018 at 17:18
1

Back again! I will introduce myself in a more appropriate way later. I always have been following all the projects ever since the idea of the phone block. Love the Precious Plastic initiative so much as well. So, this YouTuber went through the same adventure and might give some good advice on how to get a piece of land for cheap that is actually worthed: Here .

starter
20/05/2018 at 17:38
7

I think Brazil is a damn good place for this project, cheap land, not that much laws, lots and lots of rivers and sun AND people in need of info how to preserve the environment right next to Amazon Forest.

I’m 26, no money at all, but give me a chewing gum and some branch then I can build a robot for your purpose and tell you why it is useful or not for society.

Count on me for this project.

 

Ps. If it catches your interest, google for Curitiba/PR, Brazil. International airport next to a 4 million people, temperature goes from 5ºC to 25ºC over the year, 40km from the big city (Curitiba) you’ll get  a whole lot of land for 80k for sure (1 euro = 4,6 reais). Can help you find the perfect place if you want.

Cheers!

new
20/05/2018 at 18:26
3

PERMACULTURE!
Hi, I’m Roberto, a civil constructor and I love bio-construction and solar architecture. In Chile I know several communities that function as ProjectKamp. The good relationship with nature is key. At the same time it is the internet connection. if you are interested you can find out about a concept called EDIBLE FORESTS. It’s very cool.
If you need help, with some friends you can help with related topics. as …
BIO-CONSTRUCTION
ORCHARDS
EDIBLE FORESTS
NATURAL MEDICINE

starter
20/05/2018 at 18:29
7

stones, oakforests, sheep, fertile ground, wild boar and deer
an island in the north of Croatia (Cres)
the local communities were always selfsufficient and are disappearing
the ‘bad’ news: beautyful coast flooded with plastics 😉
the good news; big pieces of land are of my family, i speak the local language and i’m a summer shepard 😉

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starter
20/05/2018 at 20:12
4

I’ve been dreaming up this same project for years.  I’ve always had my eye on Costa Rica which is one of the most green and forward thinking countries there are.

https://www.eomega.org/article/6-ways-costa-rica-leads-in-sustainability

Land is still relatively cheap and the economy and government seem to genuinely take care of its people.

dedicated
20/05/2018 at 23:06
8

Dave you are dutch and you guys know how to create land if you can’t find one. How about creating land from scratch? A floating structure made of recycled plastic buoys?
There’s a lot of ocean out there waiting to be colonized.. (in an environmentally friendly way..)

warrior
20/05/2018 at 23:13
4

Loving these ideas and pictures. Gives me hope 💪

helper
21/05/2018 at 00:02
8

Just another avenue of thought…
Instead of building a community on a “greenfield site” (a patch of land previously untouched by development) – how about considering “brownfield sites” (land previously developed, and now unused, with possibly derelict facilities).

An example could be an old military camp, a derelict airfield, or an old industrial facility.  It is possible that there could be problems with contamination from previous activities on the site – but sometimes there are grants available (e.g. from the EU) to help with the clean-up.

I know that it doesn’t sound like the “back to nature” idyl, but it could be compatible with a desire to reclaim the planet from the industrial excesses of the past.

starter
21/05/2018 at 00:28
2

Hey Dave,
thats one great experience you try to tackle as a new project. I love it!
I really hope you will find a piece of land in NL for that project, I recently moved to Utrecht and I love everything about it.
While I was “dreaming” about living in a camp like this I thought about the Eifel (Germany). I do have friends an family there, it is not the heart of the world, but you have a lot of land and a few more hills 😉
But I think Germany has even more regulations then the Netherlands so I think you better look for other options.
If it could be an option and you would like me to ask around if there is someone selling a pice of land let me know!!!

Till

starter
21/05/2018 at 05:01
3

I am sure most of us have dreamed of a project like this. I think because this is a global project, the land needs to be in a country where immigrants are welcomed. This day and age many countries are making immigration rules more strict. Also, buying land will have its rules. Has anyone researched this yet? Here in Australia we actually have people who have started permaculture and eco communities which people can by land shares in (still too expensive for me to join). Personally I think the first step is to decide on the country, work out how much land will be required, how many acres for housing, community buildings and agricultural will be needed. Also how many people, how much the communities footprint will have on the environment and how much each person needs to contribute in monetary form. It’s sad that we need to think of start up money but the rest of the world does not think like us (we need to buy our freedom). This is a very big project, I’m nearly 50 but I’d like to live and be apart of a community like this before I die. A lot of planning is needed. Do you have a planning committee in place as yet? Sign me up 🙂

helper
21/05/2018 at 06:56
6

Great idea, I love it.

I also thought about a similar idea few years back,
I ended up stoping it, maybe a bit to utopistic at the time for just a few friends.

You can look at this website they are selling villages that has been deserted and lands in Spain.
Villages
https://www.aldeasabandonadas.com/venta-de-aldeas.html
Lands
https://www.aldeasabandonadas.com/venta/venta-fincas-parcelas.html

Some of theme aren’t cheap but there were some big lands for cheap at the time.

At some point the Spain government was giving some for free if you were submitting a environmental project/ rehabilitation.

Aslo i would suggest a river rather than a lake, to make hydropower which is cleaner and more reliable on long terme than solar panel.

 

Also i would suggest to give a look to GEN (eco village network)

Here is the map of all the places.

Ecovillage Projects Map

I went to visit one in Tarifa (spain) they had some really great feedback on how to start and methodology to mobilize people on this type of project (dragon dreaming methodology)

also unmonastery project was really interesting (unfortunately i think it had to stop)

http://unmonastery.org/

 

 

starter
21/05/2018 at 08:40
3

For those who are interested in possibilities of how to set up and run a community, look at https://www.twinoakscommunity.org started in 1967 and still going. Lots of ideas 🙂

starter
21/05/2018 at 09:27
2

Check out Riven.. I mean, Georgia 🙂 https://youtu.be/YWXvDxovfM4

new
21/05/2018 at 10:55
1

Hey Dave, is there any size requirement as a minimum ?

starter
21/05/2018 at 12:42
5

AWESOME! Been thinking of the same thing for a while now 😀 – There seem to be a lot of good places in Portugal. For 80k you can get quite something!

Going driving there in my van in July so will keep my eyes pealed!

starter
21/05/2018 at 13:09
2

Estimated size?

starter
21/05/2018 at 13:42
2

I love this Idea! I have been in love with a house in the Dutch south-west (Brabant) for a long time. It’s kind of close to Rotterdam and Breda. It is surrounded by a lot of land so maybe the excisting house could be a workspace and other houses could be built. I don’t know if it’s for sale. I know it has been abandoned for quite a few years now. (I hope the picture is working) There a river very close an some kind of small woods. I always dreamt of living there but i might be to expensive plus I figured living with somewhere with a group would be more fun anyway.

Otherwise it’s here

And here 

starter
21/05/2018 at 13:46
6

Hey @davehakkens ,

This is my first post here, but I’ve followed you for quite some time. I registered here because of your video about looking for land. It appears that many have offered you great options, and I’d like to discuss another.

My wife and I dreamt of doing precisely what you’re planning now, and we purchased the land to do it. We selected what was formerly an old trailer park in the country, in North Carolina. The site has several small septic tanks in the ground already, is already internet-ready (cable), and is large enough to support several houses and work buildings (9 acres / 3.6 hectares). The others who joined us in the endeavor became discouraged and abandoned the project early, and we no longer have the resources to continue working on it.

We intend to sell the land, but seeing your video, we would want nothing more than to sell it to you for this project. It would be a win-win for everyone. We would be able to continue our plans in life, and you would be able to continue our dream with your own project.

Our land checks everything on your list. We have already checked the regulations of the county where the land sits for this sort of project, and everything is greenlit. Exactly what you’re planning is fully legal here. It is centrally located within the state, so you have easy access to several airports and a train station (which I’ll include below with times and distances). There are plenty of trees on the property, and there are several adjacent plots that are undeveloped (for future expansion possibilities?). The back corner has a small creek, and the land is suitable to digging a pond, if you prefer.

The only thing that remains is price, which is something I would very much like to discuss with you directly, but before that I would sweeten the deal. I believe in what you’re doing, and I’m familiar with this area. Should you end up basing your project here, I’ll personally commit a full year of part-time work to you without pay. I am in such a position that I can offer you this without reservation. I can help develop the land, build, and contact local professionals, makers, and environmental enthusiasts to come to your aid. There are many in this area.

Please, give thought to establishing in the US. If there’s any country on the planet with such need to consume less, it’s the US. We could really use your help here. We look forward to your reply. Thanks very much.

Airports (with driving time from land):
Charlotte International ~1 hour 45 min
Raleigh International ~50 min
Piedmont Triad International ~45 min

Train stations:
Greensboro ~35 min
Burlington ~20 min
Durham ~40 min

Within a couple hours (or less) drive of mountains, lakes, rivers, hiking, fishing, a half-dozen breweries, many colleges and schools (to speak about your work), and sporting events of all sorts. I’d be happy to send you the survey of the land and other images. I include here only one to give you an idea of the undeveloped nature of the land. There is great potential here.

Best,
Patrick R.

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starter
21/05/2018 at 14:38
4

Hi Guys, I think before you purchase any land you really need to discuss and plan what you really want in terms of “Self-Sufficiency” and how much land you will need. You also need to work out how many people and a $share price.

Here’s what various sources say:

According to the Food and Agricultural Organization, the minimum amount of land needed for self-sustainable food in North America or Western Europe is 17 acres per person. This number assumes absolutely no land degradation, crop failures, or waste.An infographic by 1BOG.org breaks it down to about 2 acres of land for a family of four. This includes approximately 12,000 sq. feet for wheat, 65 for eggs, 2640 for corn, 100 for dairy, 207 for meat, and 77,000 square feet for vegetables.An older study from 1994 estimates 2 acres per person to sustain the standard American diet.Proponents of aquaponics say that 90% of our dietary needs can be grown in 50 square feet.John Jeavons of Grow BioIntensive says that a vegan diet can be grown in 4,000 square feet.Permaculture advocates say that ¼ acre per person is adequate when permaculture is combined with poultry, fruit trees, and possibly aquaponics.Clive Blazey in his book The Australian Vegetable Garden claims that 42 square meters of space is enough to support four people.John Seymour in his book The New Complete Guide to Self-Sufficiency says that 5 acres is enough to be food sufficient in high-rainfall areas of the UK.
Source: https://www.primalsurvivor.net
I tend to go with John Seymour but not to his extent in self sufficiency by way of livestock and growing crops to feed them. So maybe 1 acre per person, 100acres = 100 individuals contributing in some way to the community.

warrior
21/05/2018 at 22:00
2

wauw @cordane thanks for the offer! I have to admit it check pretty much all the boxes. Mountains, lakes, rivers, hiking, fishing, a half-dozen breweries>Sounds amazing! But i’ll be real honest here, i’m not sure if i am ready to establish in the US……. Give me some time to think about that…

starter
21/05/2018 at 22:08
5

@davehakkens , of course. I understand.

If there’s anything we can help with as far as information regarding our land (or the US in general) that would help inform your decision, please just send me a direct message here.

Or, maybe you’d like to come take a trip over to see us? You travel the world already, it seems, and we’d be more than happy to guide you about for awhile!

starter
22/05/2018 at 05:04
4

If this project becomes too overwhelming, you could think about a global network of “Kamp’s” where members could support each other just like the plastic recycling project. I’ve seen a lot of, not failures, but communities become not what they intended to be. Check out https://www.ic.org/the-fellowship-for-intentional-community. Don’t be disheartened, there are a lot of people out there looking for this kind of opportunity including me 🙂 I just haven’t found the right group (they’re either too out there or too in there). Not sure what Dave’s vision is or if he even knows himself, it appears organic, but I can see a global network of properties each set up with recycling facilities and self-sufficient families living and caring for each other harmoniously, not for money profit but to give back to humanity.

new
22/05/2018 at 19:43
1

Hey  Everyone, this is such awesome idea. I can make propose for Ukraine. it’s not in EU so less stupid laws. lands are extremely cheap! Can get land near airport. for 10-20 k $ in some small village like i did… size of the land 10-20 sotka. Let me know if you interested i can give you more details. 🙂

 

Sotka = 100m2
here some pics i found on land that are for sale

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starter
23/05/2018 at 07:48
3

If this is going to be an International Kamp you need to look at the country’s Permanent Residence Permit Laws for foreigners looking to immigrate to that country. This is were it gets tricky.

p3p
starter
24/05/2018 at 04:24
5

There is one thing where everybody is right, migration policies are shit. But yall missing a big point, that is a bunch of bullshit.

 

As an international volunteer the thing you learn the most is visas, the way they work the way to go around them and the actual option on the table for almost all countries. There is a volunteers visa that alouds people to stay for longer periods of time. And thats when the site and it registration will help the comunity members. And that is only one example.

 

What happens here is people not having a clue of how a project like this one works, and thats what i would like to discuss.In our land we are planing to have an international crew, for starting we are an Argentinian/Australian couple with a just born Australian baby, our names? Nicolas, Sharna and little Sol… we are people from all over the world that keep runing into each other in diferent projects for diferent reasons. The goal in 2017 was to go and do enough research to aloud us to have this kind of conversations. Thing is you need to be a Foundation (at least in argentina) in order to make the “constitution of the foundation” not overwritable, to have the founders as the maximum desition making authorities as well.

Thing with a lot of people from diferent places is that it tends to get a little unorganized so starting something like this shouldnt be on site planification because disagreements can cost years in progress.

Long story short i would recomend to decide the “Legal Figure” that the project will hold on to its life so that way it will be easier to make a call to people with proper information.

To dave I will insist on using our land as a base, and tell you that the family fully supports you and we are more than happy to host a project like these ion our farm, i would like to know if you have the time to have a private one on one skype, facetime, whatever you decide, maybe i should make a youtube video answering your call for land? Sadly the only online information about our farm project is in a facebook group and i dont know how much you use that platform.

Know mate that our land has no price when it cames to care for the planet. And we have a lot of advice from friends and family about how to develop a project like this. Open arms from Australia (at the moment).

xo,

Nico, Sha y Sol.

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