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Step #2 – Finding a piece of land

This topic contains 107 replies, has 70 voices, and was last updated by  Marja 3 days ago.

27
Dave Hakkens davehakkens

Step #2 – Finding a piece of land

20/05/2018 at 15:07

Hey!

Before we go in details about a piece of land, make sure to watch the step #1 video on projectkamp.com and read this post here.

This topic is to discuss options to find a piece of land, i’m sure there are many places available but hard to find them all from a laptop in the Netherlands. This this topic is to share ideas, sites, listings, pictures of land that is available. You might even have a friend that has a piece available.

Specially in early stage we are quite easy, never bought a piece of land so would like to explore options. A few (flexible) guidelines though.
– Netherlands would be cool, otherwise or Europe.
– Close to an airport or train station (max 1,5 hour)
– Enough surrounding green land around it.
– River in it would be sick! Otherwise we will digg a lake 😀
– Possible to live there with multiple people
– Max €80K, i guess…

Hopefully you guys are able to help out! The person that finds the land gets its own statue with name on the land. Eternal Project Kamp fame ✌️

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starter
24/05/2018 at 06:25
5

Hi Nico, Sha and Sol. Welcome to Australia, sorry about the cold weather. Must be climate change 😊

Dave, looking at everyone’s contributions we are all inspired about the idea of living and working an eco-property that includes recycling, designing and manufacturing plastic products.

I think there is a consensus on the difficulty of immigration and obtaining permanent visa’s etc. Like Nico, I too have travel a lot, volunteering my labour through WorkAway and WWOOF (Willing Workers On Organic Farms) for accommodation and board.

I think it would be a good idea if your Netherland group develops a manifesto for anyone in the world who wants to set-up their own community that includes the ideas and designs of the “Dave Hakkens” community.

I have three young men (including my son) around your age who are keen on the idea and want me to provide the capital for such a venture in Australia.

I have already started drafting my own plan for anyone who is interested but it will only be a draft as I still need to research legal requirements for Australian shared community properties and businesses.

What do you think?

new
24/05/2018 at 13:32
4

In Ukraine, people from EU and some other country  has 3 months entry without visa. so you can keep re enter. I think also can make some temporary residency and can stay here as long as you  want.

starter
25/05/2018 at 08:29
13

Hi Dave,
I am not suggesting a land or a country to live in, but an alternative idea that we are working on, here in China and that has many congruences with what you are describing in your video.

In short, we want to establish a biocentric floating village on the Tai lake near Shanghai (the 2nd largest lake in China). Instead of using land we want to create new ones out of recycled shredded, slightly melted PET, to form thick floating slabs, covered with sticky films to attract microbial life, with plants covering the island surface with their roots dropping into the water. This help detoxify the lake, creating a mini habitat benefitting fishes, birds and butterflies, on which humans could live and work while giving back to the eco-system and not just taking from it.

It’s true Holland has many euro regulations (trust me… I am French), but you guys are also masters at floating architectures. So maybe, instead of thinking “land”, think “water”. In our project here in China, we will have a land base geodesic dome with a permaculture surrounding it near Wuxi city by the banks of the lake. But the idea is to have most activities on water. Here the rules depends very much on one’s good relationship with the local government, which we haven’t been able to establish yet. So personally wherever you stay in Holland or come to China… I very much hope we can work together in some ways to develop techs allowing a comfortable and safe living while improving our biosphere. And the precious plastic machines are very much in our mind to help build and maintain the village’s structures and equipments.

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starter
25/05/2018 at 20:33
4

This is more than a like, this is a love. Unbelievable idea Greg. I so very much hope you get this project off the drawing board and into reality. I wish I could volunteer my service but I’m not sure how I could help. I’m not technically minded and not too keen on water but I can make sandwiches and coffee 🙂

starter
26/05/2018 at 03:36
5

@michellechristensen, as long as the coffee and the sandwiches are vegan you are welcome to help us. We need many skills and many expertise. Fortunately we are attracting the right kind of people, and executing does not require major skills. We actually want everyone to be able to build these islands and domes by themselves. But to design and engineer these equipments do require special experts and these people are not cheap, but not un-reasonable either. As I briefly mentioned, our hurdle right now is a good connection with the local government. The moment we have that, things can come out of the drawing board fairly quickly.

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starter
27/05/2018 at 05:48
4

Hi Dave
I know you have first suggested “Finding a piece of land” for this project and am jumping the gun with providing thoughts on community planning because this is an area in which I am personally interested in. I recently took the time to look at your recommended “video” list and suggest others to do so if they already haven’t. The Venus Project is a project I looked at some years ago and filed away but your list sparked my interest in it again. Have you yourself looked at it and what are your thoughts?

And Greg, vegan I can do 🙂

dedicated
27/05/2018 at 15:50
2

This is not the same but it could work well…

Hundreds of houses for sale at 1 euro in Italy

new
28/05/2018 at 22:03
3

I found some land in Connecticut.
http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/24-34-Cannon-Rd-Wilton-CT/12353270/

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starter
29/05/2018 at 11:01
3

Not sure may be done but i would like to point you to michael tellinger that was trying to do a similar project on south Africa if i did get right so maybe a piece of land already “set up” for that vision (ubuntuvillage).

BTW from what i get he stop working on that because no way to live without national governament.

just try to talk with him, he have a wide experience in this “camp” ( 😀 ) i think, so he may be a good counselour.

If u want to try a more big but maybe more burocratic way you can try to cantact thrive movement, thay have a big structure and they work well with data, not able to understand if they got to a good point in practice.

Thanks for your time and most of all for you gr8 job.

EDIT:

Just had some spare time… Thought that maybe Romania have the best european ratio €/m^2 and i found this 😛

I know this is not your first choice, just trying to help:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/directions?engine=osrm_car&route=44.9419%2C25.4728%3B44.5726%2C26.0850#map=9/44.9337/26.1145

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.olx.ro%2Foferta%2Foferta-gratis-7000-mp-vanzare-teren-in-valea-voievozilor-IDaY4EB.html%2396aadd25e7

Sorry if too much borderline  😀

helper
29/05/2018 at 11:09
7

So this is a website where properties from the dutch government go up for auction. Sometimes for redevelopment, sometimes for interesting social projects in collaboration with the locals and the county.

 

https://www.biedboek.nl/nl/

 

Like this old campground! I did noticed that a community of tiny-housers are interested in making an offer for this old campsite, they want to build a tiny house community for 10+ residents.

 

https://www.biedboek.nl/nl/realestate/view/411/doornseweg-29b-te-leusden

 

Whenever a community wants to live on a piece of land without facilities like sewage, water and electricity it is quite important to make an inventory of how many residents, what type of industry, agriculture, how many livestock are estimated. All of this determines the amount of water needed from wells and rainwater is needed and how much wastewater and sewage is going out into the environment.

There are quite some regulations concerning the waste water and plans for adequate filtration systems need to be accounted for to get county permission.

 

Septic tanks are quite efficient but also expensive and these need to be emptied. They will need accessibility for trucks to empty these

Leech fields are a good addition to other systems but take up quite some space and are prone to bacterial contamination when waste water exceeds it’s capacity. Which happens quite fast when you add more residents and or livestock.

Sewage: Makes life easy but deviates from the original thought of building an offline off-grid community.

Myco-filtration: Using mycelium inoculated wood chip beds to consume excess nutrition and bacteria from waste water is a concept not put to test that much but there are some studies and tryouts being done in the United States and Canada. This system holds a lot of potential and is quite low tech.

Composting: Mix in your feces with sawdust, straw and plant matter, box it up or put it in a barrel to ferment for 12 months or longer. Bacteria and viruses harmful to humans and other mammals get replaced by benign bacteria and micro-organisms during this period. After that period you’ll be able to use it as compost without contaminating your soil and food with harmful bacteria. This method is low tech but you will be dealing with barrels full of fecal matter. 😛

 

It all comes down to not exceeding the threshold of bacteria enriched wastewater from the property into the environment. And we produce quite a lot of that stuff. There are quit some regulations concerning these type of subjects and differ from county to county in Europe. Some county’s are interested in developing communities and try out different concepts. Other county’s don’t want to have anything to do with alternatives.

 

 

 

 

 

 

starter
29/05/2018 at 17:26
3

Hey Dave,

Greetings from Nepal !

Took three days to sign up in your community due to the technical problem. Anyways, I just want to say for the Kamp project, I can manage you many different lands in Nepal. By the way and the lands are reasonably cheap than any other south Asian countries.

I think these kind of small projects should be done in country like ours which is underdeveloped and could bring awareness for the environment before they do more damages to the environment by adapting eco friendly lifestyle.

If you are interested, I would invite you to see the lands that are suitable for the projects. We have two giant nations India and China in our south and northern territories with more than two billion population for whom we can demonstrate our recycling workshops and collaborate with to bring more awareness.

You can send me an email at [email protected] to see some of the pics if you consider to do so or maybe I can send some upon your request if you wish. But honestly i think you should come here for getting more exposure to the project like this to educate the people about creating self sustaining communities. I too have some good projects along with yours to make it even better.

Waiting for your response to act on if you considered Nepal to be the place for Project kamp.

With Kind regards,
Sagar Pathak
A change maker by heart.

starter
29/05/2018 at 18:29
6

Hi Dave im from Colombia and here the land is realy cheap, you can find cheap land under 500 usd, with all the thermal floors from the snowy to a tropical dry forest and the sea. You can also buy a land that has guadua (bamboo) crops and make your home with this beautiful material that is harvested every 4 years and gives an excellent beams of around 25 meters in each harvest; Colombia has more than 30 paramo ecosystems that is where the water that feeds the rivers is born.
I have dreamed of this same project before and I have done some research on it to obtain water, food, energy and other needs that may arise. I recommend a project called warka water, study the possibilities of aquaponics crops and to reduce the need for electricity the use of bike machines.
Some pictures of where i live down there ,here we have excellent land to cultivate and cheap, water everywhere, delicious typical food, if you want to go from warm to cold weather or vice versa are only trips of about 1 hour, the nearest city has airport ibague, and international flights in Bogota the flight is less than 30 minutes so you get easy anywhere. Oh I almost forgot, and not least, Colombian women are beautiful, warm and funny.

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starter
03/06/2018 at 05:06
2

Sneak peek time lapse  of a visit to the farm in 2016.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmyEvzgu7Nk&t=1s

 

Really thinking on this project, is there anything going on in the background?!

I wa reading about migrating regulations in Argentina and its sorprisingly easy when there is an “official” reason such as working, developing projects, home basing, etc… We have a really loose constitution in the sense of migrating burocracy.

 

Anyways, still interested to jump to wherever this could happen. I can recomend a few already runing places that we could add up on. If that is of interest in the comunity.

 

 

helper
05/06/2018 at 17:41
6

Hey @davehakkens

Your country is Colombia !!

Good variety of climate, oceans, mountains, valleys, water, fauna, everything is here ! and the law is good for immigrant and business.

Where i live in Valle del Cauca, close is Cali, the capital city with 2.5 million of people, the land is cheap, the airport is close, we have rivers and lakes near, rich in biodiversity, ask to @mattia-io, he came here in the middle of “jungle” !
You can move in bike or public transport.

I invited you to come and nowk this country In june 28 one event of sustainable projects in Colombia “Call of the mountain”

I share some pictures than i take a round here

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starter
14/06/2018 at 07:01
4

Please read this! This seems to be the most effective plan for Project Kamp! We are working on developing project kamp here in Brazil, that is, building a new city, starting by first developing the recycling center of the city and then, building the rest of the city around it with plastic and metal trash we colect for free from the surrounding cities as the main raw material with which we build the city. Also, after the recycling center is done and working, the next thing is to develop machines made from the recyled materials to set up a vegetarian burger production line. the same way you guys made a set of machines to recycle plastic, we aim t o build a set of machines to produce raw vegan hamburgers, vegan cheese, bread, and beltways and what not so as to make a production line where vegan sandwiches are produced automatically, without any need for human labor. produce a vegan meal that is cheap and accessible to everyone. so the step-by-step for project kamp COULD be:1. form a group of people;2. raise the money;3. buy a piece of land that is large enough and as flat as possible;4. form a multi-sector cooperative5. design the city, that is create the blueprint of it6. begin construction, starting with the recycling center7. once recycling center is operational, use it to produce recycled plastic bricks or houses and to produce machines that automate the production of food (agriculture) and water, and the transportation and preparation of food… with this vegan cheap food you can sell it to near by towns and make profit and use it to further develop the project and the new city… and the same goes for the plastic houses…

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starter
14/06/2018 at 07:03
3

Explaining deeper, stuff about Project Kamp. The goal of any project similar to project Kamp should be to achieve selfsufficiency, that is, to produce all of the goods and services that the community needs (very important to make the distinction between needs and wants) like food, water, shelter, sewage, recycling, production of goods (like clothing, hygiene and cleaning products) education and health… If the members of the community have to go out of the community into the old cities to access a dentist, and to buy cleaning products, that will generate problems. The more efficient the community is, in terms of producing and distributing goods and services, the better its functioning will be. So we have to be strategic, develop a strategic plan that makes the projects development viable. And what makes things accessible is automation. Automating the process of production and distribution of goods and services makes these goods and services cheap or even free (which is the goal, everything free for everyone) so, again, my suggestion for the Project Kamp is to make it as organized and startegic as possible. Buy a piece of land. Build recycling center. With recycled plastic (and metal, Precious Metal should be done too) build houses and machines that produce food (like Farmbot) and machines that transport it and prepare and cook it. As I’ve said befor, we could build a Vegan Burger Factory, a building with a set of machines and beltways that receive the vegetables, wash them, cut them mix them and prepare them into vegan sandwiches that are designed (by nutrition professionals) to serve as a full meal and sandwiches that are also very cheap… the sandwiches would come out of the factory wrapped in a paper package (which could serve and a newsletter) and could be distributed to the adjacent cities to be sold in Automated Vending Machines… we are all familarized with such machines, think about it, these machines can sell vegan burgers, full vegan health-bomb meals. think of the impact of general public health. millions of homeless people being able to access healthy food. This is the first time I’m sharing this idea with anyone, and I had it very recently. If we also produced these Automated Vending Machines, making them Precious plastic style, with recycled materials, we could lower their cost tremendly, considering that these machines as sold by the current companies that make them are enourmous, like 10 thousand euro for one machine… Also, we could develop these machines to accept 2kg of plastic of metal trash in exchange for 1 sandwich, this way homeless people could collect trash from the streets and buy food with it. the only workers necessary would be one or two supervisioning the factories, and the people trasnporting the burgers from factory to vending machine, replenishing it when its empty. the transporter delivers the batch of sandwiches to the vending machine and take the trash collected back to where the factory is (project kamp, where the food is produced and also where the recycling of the trash collected wil take place) where it is used to build new machines to be sold for other regions in a form of franchising.

starter
14/06/2018 at 07:10
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Also, check this company out, they made a [recycled plastic brick factory inside a container]… does it remind you of anything? (V3) Link: http://www.byfusion.com/

 

This could be what we start with in terms of Construction, or maybe this and Bamboo coverd with “hot-air-gun-melted-pet-bottles”-around-them…

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new
14/06/2018 at 09:30
3

@raphaelvalentino

I quite like the idea of open sourcing an automated vending machine.

I had this idea thinking about how to help farmers lower the barrier to entry to sell locally in short supply chain.

Like an amazon locker delivery but to sell food or put prepared orders.

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starter
14/06/2018 at 17:51
4

Hello, Dave!
Sorry for repeating, I made a mistake with topics.
My name is Vladimir and I am from Moldova.

Inspired by the Precious Plastic community, together with some friends we’re almost ready to launch our own workshop, here in Moldova – so thank you for that!The reason I am writing is that here in Moldova we have a lot of beautiful and relatively cheap land which could be the home of ProjectKamp. The land could easily be somewhere in nature but within a 30 minutes drive to the capital.

Our climate is sweet tempered, our soil is rich and people are welcoming.Our country is situated on the border of EU, so we have different opportunities for cooperation and financing from EU programs, but also the cost of living is close to developing countries (around 100-150EUR per month for 1 person from village).We’ve got working NGOs that promote zero waste, sustainability, organic agriculture and such, and they’ve started an ecological “village” as a place for (co)working and educating- EcoVisio (run by a great German guy).

ProjectKamp could be located in their vecinity as there is a lot of land waiting to be used.There are quite a few NGOs working to make our country and the world better, but there are even more challenges and therefore, opportunities. But, to be onest, I should warn you about several problems:

1) Not really effective Goverment
2) Corruption
3) Not really good infrastructure
4) Some things like Electro Engine can cost more than in your country (we bought 2 of them (3 Kwt and 2.2 Kwt) for 200$ for our PP machines).

But we have also an eco settlement (several families, developing permaculture and living on the land, which is given by goverment them). And I don’t see the reason, why we can’t also get some lend for the Project Camp :))

If you are interested, we will be glad to assist you and work with you in finding a place for ProjectKamp.

All the best,
Vladimir
[email protected]

[email protected]

https://www.facebook.com/TineriiPentruEcoPlastic/

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starter
15/06/2018 at 00:33
5

Hi Dave and community, love to hear this idea, it would be great to reproduce it by my own, but, at the moment I think I can be helpful offering this piece of land in Costa Rica, Central America, near to a volcano(not active volcano :D), near to airport and the most beautiful beaches you can imagine, is a beautiful place, rich soil, a river crossing, and the possibility to create a lake, this is my father in law’s but it can be provided at a nice price.
It is a cheap country to live and grow this kind of community, as a matter of fact, Costa Rica’s electricity this year were produced 100% on renewable energy, as far as I know to the month of may, I supposed this is going to continue, hopefully.
I know many people would be loving to help!! myself included 😀
Attached are some photos of the land 😀

if any info needed, reach me at [email protected]

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starter
15/06/2018 at 05:43
3

Also, what will play a big role in the spreading of Project Kamp is adding a feature on the Precious Plastic Map where people can add a pin on the map for a Project Kamp in that region…

starter
15/06/2018 at 09:07
4

Piece of land for sale in South of Brazil, city of Lages, state of Santa Catarina, with an area of 1.000.000 m² (square meters) and 62.000 Pine Trees with 10 yrs old. This piece of land is for sale for the price of 300.000 euro. In this 1 million square meter area I calculate we can build a city/village for a population of 4000 to 8000 people (1200 to 2400 houses). One idea is to form a group of half the number of the desired population. Based on the One Community Earthbag Village Time Investment Estimates, a group of people can build a village for double the amount of people in the group in 2 to 3 years. I know that moving so far south may seem farfecthed to some, but Brazil is the 6th economy in the world. It is the country were all cultures meet, the country with more japanese people outside of japan, the country with more water and natural resources, land is much cheaper both because of the currency difference AND the fact that Brazil is so big and has so much land… Also, consider the idea of making a crowdfunding campaing where one of the rewards people get when they donate is A HOUSE IN THE NEW CITY/VILLAGE… imagine, a crowdfunding campaign where if you donate, say, $5000 you get a house, and not just a house, but a house in a city that you’ll help build, where energy and water will be free, where there would be far less social problems… and we can limit the amount of this particular reward on the crowdfunding campaign, to the number of houses we plan to build on the land chosen, so we don’t end up selling more than we can build. So, if we were to choose this land, with that goal of building a city/village for 8 thousand people, considering 3 people per house on average that would be 2700 houses to be built in the city. So we can limit the house reward to 2000 units. If we create simple and short videos, like the ones Dave does explaining the project (and if the project is solid enough) and we share it it could go viral, a house for 5k in a smartcity built by the people? and there’s only 2000 units? people would race to get it. And 2000 houses for 5000 dollars each would get us 10 million dollars, which is the same as 30 million reais (brazil’s currency). [Which is the amount of money invested by an italian corporate group in the construction of a smartcity here in Brazil, for a population of 20.000 people (3 times the amount of people I described) in an area of 3.3 million square meters (3 times the size of the land in the picture) northeast region: http://www.planetsmartcity.com.br

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new
15/06/2018 at 14:50
2

Would you consider Uganda?

starter
17/06/2018 at 10:38
5

Transylvania is a cheap option in Europe, perhaps close to Brasov, Sibiu or Cluj. They all have airports and a flight from fx Cluj to Copenhagen is 2.5 hours. Driving wise well it’s a bit trickier.  The country experienced a massive loss of population in the past 10 years. About 6 million Romanians have left the country because of better salaries in the Vestern countries…but for someone who has an international income like you, a place like that would be ideal because of lower costs. So 2000 Euro in romania can get you a lot further than lets say in the Netherlands. Plus romanians are super crazy, creative and warm people.

The nature in Transyilvania is stunning, plenty of rivers, lakes mountains…and the country is 15-20 years behind the rest of Europe, so plenty of room to improve on …anything :))

On the picture you can see an older version of Project Kamp that was very successful 🙂 Good luck Dave, let me know if you need some more precise research, i’ll be in  Cluj starting from 1st of August 2018

A few useful links:

https://www.olx.ro/imobiliare/terenuri/brasov/?search%5Bfilter_float_price%3Afrom%5D=10000&search%5Bfilter_float_price%3Ato%5D=100000

https://vanzari.bancatransilvania.ro/executari-silite/categorie/terenuri/

Meanwhile i am making a list of things that might improve the life of the campers: such as bio-gas container that makes …well natural gas from food leftovers.
Cheers.

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new
17/06/2018 at 12:52
3

guys, always check on the usual pages, what kind of fees you’re facing :  https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living. best mix is spain as said, lowest barriers in europe to build a project like this.
g

helper
18/06/2018 at 10:26
2

Yes! Spain is great, good climate, no long cold winters, easy language, lot’s of nature land. They did forget to ban hydraulic fracturing and shale gas exploratory drilling though. So if a community makes an investment in a piece of land you might want to make sure that your next door neighbors will not be a gas drilling operation, oil refinery, nuclear power station, coal mine, oil well etc. These might be factors one might want to keep in mind.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_fracturing_by_country

 

France for instance has banned all fossil fuel exploration and wants to end all fossil fuel extraction by the year 2040.

 

Germany and the Netherlands have a long history of hydraulic fracturing and currently have a temporary moratorium on shale gas extraction operations. So these “de facto bans” are still subject to political change and public opinion.

 

It might be a big plus to take root in a country which has a more progressive attitude towards these issues so one does not have to waste time and energy on political debate, protests and environmental issues like these.

starter
18/06/2018 at 18:17
3

So, I made a facebook group for Project Kamp. Check it out if you have facebook and please join: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2305102729716790/

 

Also, please, again, if you haven’t yet, please check out The Venus Project, I’ll leave some images of their new website describing the project their working on, which is totally similar to this one!

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starter
19/06/2018 at 02:26
3

Hi everyone hi dave, Love the Idea!
I m Facundo from Argentina and i ve been following you for a couple of years since i notice about precious plastic proyect, with my father and brother we built the precious plastic schedder and we keep working in the proyect.
Argentina is a great country, with bigs extensions of land that could work out.
also i m pretty shure that isnt problem with forein people
Congrats for this great adventur you start to build a better world, hope the best. i will start searching for land. i would love to be part of it.

starter
24/06/2018 at 06:34
2

The Salton Sea in Imperial valley, California would make a great remediation project location.  Granted it is in the United States and might not fully meet some of the criteria but I urge you to at least consider it.  I think it needs the most help and attention because of how important this lake is.  Plenty of cheap desert land!  Go big or go home.  Whatcha’ think Dave?

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starter
25/06/2018 at 19:16
4

Hi Dave,
For nearly 8 years I’m waiting. Or my land is waiting, all the animals are impatient and the flower fairies are sleeping. Everything is fine to start. France, Europe. Internet 4G. Till now I never met somebody with the same IDEA. If someone know the Prince with or without horse, please send him.
Dave could you make a new item in the community so we can make an efficient exchange? I have a high level project, and I like to accomplish and share it.
Love this Earth, happy to be here.
2ha, intelligent farming, smart building, and smart open minds.
Lise

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