Step #2 – Finding a piece of land
This topic is to discuss options to find a piece of land, i’m sure there are many places available but hard to find them all from a laptop in the Netherlands. This this topic is to share ideas, sites, listings, pictures of land that is available. You might even have a friend that has a piece available.
Specially in early stage we are quite easy, never bought a piece of land so would like to explore options. A few (flexible) guidelines though.
– Netherlands would be cool, otherwise or Europe.
– Close to an airport or train station (max 1,5 hour)
– Enough surrounding green land around it.
– River in it would be sick! Otherwise we will digg a lake 😀
– Possible to live there with multiple people
– Max €80K, i guess…
Hopefully you guys are able to help out! The person that finds the land gets its own statue with name on the land. Eternal Project Kamp fame ✌️
I don’t post usually in this thread, but let you know that we are also trying a similar project in Spain. At the moment we are not searching for a land, but we are creating a website and also researching on renewable energy project that is not dependent of solar light and/or wind.
It’s good to see how this thread is getting higher activity. That means there are more and more interested members.
maybe also of general (educational) interest is this idylically located project in spain http://www.sunseed.org.uk/blogs/
this area is the only true desert in europe…..mindblowing nature,geology & history
…and the most honest tapas on the iberian peninsula – YUM!
Spain has lots of areas that are almost dessert. Almost no people live in those areas because people prefered to move to the city. There is an article in the internet that speaks about an area in Spain that is claimed to be the Iberian Stepa or something like that because almost no one is living there. There are tons of empty houses in that area. And that area is not preciselly small.
thanks for sharing your wits buddy – from my experience in spain empty houses tend to be “ruinas” and although they look attractive you usually cant get a (re)building permit the last i heard – and noticed enough desparados willing to rip off an unsuspecting potential buyer who hasnt done their homework 😉
interestingly, some of the vacant houses/ruinas in the almeria area are even said to date from the civil war era
the info about the taberna’s desert being the only real desert in europe is actually sourced from the Andalucian government – please let me know if that info isnt correct (however,from experience seeing is believing 😉
If you have any constructive input or links regarding permaculture projects…please do feel free to share
I’m offering a rundown old farm, Belgium with approx 10.000m2 of land around, currently grassland with some trees *nuts, apple, poplars , organic . All material in place can be somehow reused (oak and larix woods, rooftiles and so on) , place has deep water source and lower portions function as water reservoirs, forest is near.
It has all infrastructure around, but not a busy area, some 40 minutes from Eindhoven. I’m willing to offer this for this project to start, and some extra’s on the side if needed (tractor, tools, equip etc) .
I also found this website, English website for Portuguese real estate
There are some great pieces of land in there, with buildings that need some TLC. Some of them have wells, dams, olive trees, also found a water containment lake on one of the properties. 😛
Another question is which district/ county would be most open-minded and cooperative for Project Kamp when it comes to building permits, off grid sewage treatment, transferring Agricultural destined plots to mixed residential, commercial, agricultural and even precious plastic industrial destined plots. Are there any other communities and or projects out there which have done this research already? That information would certainly help narrowing the search area down to the most “flexible” counties and districts. 😀
Perhaps looking at climate data for Portugal’s different districts could also help narrow down the search. Looking at factors like
– Solar Hours per year
– Altitude (Frost nights/ days per year)
– Rainfall per year (drought susceptibility)
– Water Table properties (drought susceptibility)
– Coastal or land climate
Plenty of rain and dependable water tables would certainly help with agriculture but maximal amount of sunlight and wind is preferable for producing renewable energy. 😉 Altough I’m not sure how much difference there is throughout the different districts in Portugal.
How about this old Factory with land on both sides of a river?
Portugal is certainly a popular destination among permaculturists (see https://permacultureglobal.org/users ). Nice advantage is that you’ll be able to grow a much wider variety of crops and fruits compared to the north, if you have an area with milder winters.
Lots in Castelo Branco seem to go for very low prices, you can probably even find better deals when you browse the area in person and talk with the locals.
Maybe around Monsanto, if namepicking is of any importance:)
Just like anywhere else, building permits are required for all area’s, and might even need you to meet certain style-needs to ensure you blend in with the area. Again, you’ll need to check that locally, in the town hall.
Maybe the most effective way to approach this, is to make a clear plan and present that to the municipalities of your choice, preferably done by or with a local. I can imagine that some underdeveloped area’s would welcome a Kamp plan, to stimulate local activity, maybe they can even help you to find a good place…
I initially joined here since I admired the ideas of a low impact (no footprint) and sustainable living ProjectKamp. When so many enthusiastic people joining a new project, great things can happen. But over the weekend I was thinking about some of the above posts and started to feel that something isn’t quiet right here.
I mean, if you really want less footprints, why occupying a large area in the country side and create more buildings on it?
Nature thrives best in areas where humans are not present. Wherever we go or settle, we do have an impact. This is a major concern, since our occupation of the countryside is resulting in more loss of natural habitat all the time. There are plenty of these so-called ecovillages, probably mostly build with the best intentions, but in reality they are just another form of human settlement in areas that used to be nature or farmland. This has in reality very little to do with sustainability, regardless of the recycled wood or ecofriendly bricks used to build it.
If food needs to be provided and no footprint should be left, a truly sustainable farm would be a great idea. But such a farm is more like an organism in itself, blending in with its natural surroundings. It takes many years to develop a successful farm. But it doesn’t need lots of buildings, machines, solar panels, workspaces, windmills, sewer systems and lots of road (as in the initial picture) to provide food. But maybe ProjectKamp isn’t really so much about a sustainable and ecofriendly farm, is it?
Sorry for the rant so far, I’ll try to make my point now. If ProjectKamp is about little footprint, community, recycling and being truly sustainable, maybe it would be best suited in a place that has been taken from nature already, an old factory, office or other empty property. This way you can provide place for all the projects you want, without having to worry too much about the effect of your own presence in nature or permit limitations for your community building(s). As for your food, urban farming really needs new innovative projects. Your robotarm could assist to water and harvest for example. And recycling of nutrients and water in a closed integrated growing system is really about a sustainable future that we have to explore. Your machines, windmills, solar panels, plastic bricks will blend in much better in such area compared to the (Portuguese?) country side. If you really want to pave the way for others, then please don’t start by paving more nature.
I was watching Monthly news #22, and found out you’re looking for something in Portugal for ProjectKamp. Since I am from Portugal, I got really excited on the idea and thought I could help. Unfortunately I don’t have land that might suit your needs but I would like to share some advices:
1 – Right now we are on a House market bubble at the main cities (like Lisbon, Oporto, Aveiro, etc…) so please, run away from that!
2- Land near the shore is very expensive, but it gets a lot cheaper once you go inside the country (I did it myself, and saved a lot of money when I bought my house and land).
3- The Government is trying to convince people to move away from the shore. Perhaps there is some kind of Government help (I heard some city halls from the interior help people restoring their houses).
4 – There are some stories about entire towns being sold cheap because nobody lives there! I remember one being sold for 600 000 EUR. (I know is much, but it was as entire town!)
5 – Depending where you build the camp, we have a good network of routes.
6 – The changes on the law force people to clean their land often because of the fires. That dropped the prices on some land because of the extra work people cannot do/afford.
7- Portugal is excellent for solar, wind and wood harvesting, so there’s plenty of energy for everybody (all but oil J ).
8 – People are very nice here.
9- The cost of living is cheaper, considering northern countries (again, stay away from big cities).
10 – Our plastic recycling has a lot to work on, so, there are some challenges worth doing.
Well, these are some reasons so if you need I could give you some help. The bad part is I am not a Real Estate Agent but still I know some.
Keep up your great projects.
nice place @robb, going to dive into that a bit deeper 🙂
I see your point @arihollander, valid. But I do think humans need to find a way to live in harmony with their environment. (i like to think this is actually possible 🙂 And compressing everyone in cities doesnt seem sustainable for the long run. However it does make sense to use existing infrastructure as much as we can. Either way thanks for brining up the points, keeps us sharp!
here is the website “pure portugal”,
its made by sophie, a lovely woman from the uk wich lives now in portugal. i´ve joined her for a couple of weeks helping out around the garden and her house.
maybe she can help you, i´m sure she will love your project! there are quit a lot of different alternative project going on there.
maybe its a little help
Hey Dave and Katrina,
It’s Leão from Porto, Portugal we met at the Paris Fab City event.
Just saw your monthly news and would love to help you guys along in any way possible, i’ll leave my contact as I can’t change my email because I lost that account haha : [email protected]
There are several amazing places and projects going on in Portugal in terms of sustainability you will for sure find a welcoming place for all the amazing things you’ve been doing.
I could suggest looking into Amarante or Marco de Canaveses as it has several plots of land that full fills your goals:
– 45min from aeroport
– Local train stations
– rivers and lakes
Send me an email Katrina I have several other suggestions and we can talk more in depth.
See ya soon 🙂
Panama has a year long growing season, ample water,rain forest, beaches.
Even if you decide not to set up here, it could still play a big part and a place you might wanna visit sometime.Currently the country has no recycling program.It also has access to both oceans.
Hey Dave and Katharina, 🙂
Just saw the monthly news #22.
I am from Brazil and living in Lisboa – Portugal, since last august.I would love to help finding a land for PP Kamp!I am a post graduation student at NOVA de Lisboa University and I have a classes about smart cities projects.
As the teachers & the dean are extremely involved with municipalities and cares a lot about sustainability it would be awesome to help this conexion whit a few Portugal municipalities.
My email: [email protected]
I have found on the internet 3 houses with large pieces of land ( 4,5 hectare for 55000 EUR, 7,4 hectares for 79000 EUR, 6 hectares for 80000 EUR)
The site is in dutch or French ( google translate can help you) but if you want to search at your own for a piece of land you can search ‘para venda hectares’
Hello people! I am Adrián I am now helping @davehakkens and @katharinaelleke to find a piece of land in Portugal. I will be around Portugal the next month trying to find and to check some properties there. I am planing to be at the north area during this week with @preciousplasticportugal. I will go in January to Castelo Branco, Guarda and Lisbon area. So if anyone can offer me any help, please contact me.
ALL HELP IS WELCOME!
I live in Lisbon but have family in the Castelo Branco area. The BoomFestival location is neighbour to my grandfather’s plot (sold in the 80’s to a ‘crazy’ german guy who still lives there 🙂 )
I’m familiar with PreciousPlastics-related activities and people in Portugal (although I haven’t visited the PreciousPlasticsPortugal group in the OPOLab in Porto).
Sending you a direct msg!,
I have faund my place in Kazakhstan
I have piece of land in Kazakhstan
Maybe is this a good property. It got 2 rivers, 6 hectares and the price is 80k.
We are in the process of licensing our project wich consist of a family home, wooden cabins, comunity kitchen and space, wood workshop, metal workshop, library, textil workshop, art workshop, yoga cabin, sound studio and a full organic agricultural system consisting of a food forest, mushrooms and bees… all in an amazing sanctuary with a litle creek flowing.
We love your energy and the enormosity of the mission and want to help!!!
We are in a position to help you find land in Portugal and/or show you the process we went through (licensing, funding and natural construction) to get into the point where we are now in a project wich shares a lot of goals…
Big Love and keep up the amazing work!!!
I’m in Lisbon and looking forward to help… at least getting people to coordinate efforts! 😉
Just sent you a direct msg!
Funny, I saw the phone block years ago and just found you again searching for plastic recycling ideas. It is a massive problem here on St. Maarten where I live.
I love this idea and would like to be involved.
My vote is to buy land in South America and I’m happy to contribute.
Looking forward to this adventure,
Dave, since you want it to be in Europe and without strong regulatory barriers – I throw in Albania! There is plenty of untouched magical land, lovely people, the Tirana airport is easy to reach from almost everywhere!
We are a project working on the utilization of abandoned military facilities, bunkers and of course the soil they were built on/in.
Most of the land remains state property and there are not all for sale. But leasing it might be an option!
Advantages: General infrastructure exists and just needs to be repaired/re-installed. Bunkers work for multiple projects, no need to invest much in infrastructure or tech-, food-, or human-storage 😀
If the race for a place is still open, I´ll upload more pictures of land I come across our research trips! With the budget you can go far in Albania!
Hola personas de la comunidad ,he descubierto un terreno aqui en Malaga,Spain, con una Hectárea a 30.000€ muy por debajo de el presupuesto dado, os dejo el link aqui : https://www.milanuncios.com/venta-de-fincas-en-antequera-malaga/villa-nueva-de-algaida-205386020.htm , esta a una hora +/- del aeropuerto.
no tiene ningun rio , pero tiene olivas con lo que a la larga se podria cultivar aceite propio en nuestro beneficio. atentamente David.
Gracias David! Es un terreno muy pequeño para el proyecto, el terreno para Project Kamp debería andar sobre las 10 hectáreas o más.
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