Step #2 – Finding a piece of land
This topic is to discuss options to find a piece of land, i’m sure there are many places available but hard to find them all from a laptop in the Netherlands. This this topic is to share ideas, sites, listings, pictures of land that is available. You might even have a friend that has a piece available.
Specially in early stage we are quite easy, never bought a piece of land so would like to explore options. A few (flexible) guidelines though.
– Netherlands would be cool, otherwise or Europe.
– Close to an airport or train station (max 1,5 hour)
– Enough surrounding green land around it.
– River in it would be sick! Otherwise we will digg a lake 😀
– Possible to live there with multiple people
– Max €80K, i guess…
Hopefully you guys are able to help out! The person that finds the land gets its own statue with name on the land. Eternal Project Kamp fame ✌️
I’ve had a similar idea all my adult life. The following is just a different perspective on your pitch for this project . We as a growing collective of intelligent , passionate and driven human beings and need your help. Our aim is to provide a template through open source, how to sustainably build a fully self sufficient community with minimal impact on the land or environment.
To accomplish this goal we are looking for land. The parameters we are looking for are….fill with what you want. But I’d suggest land that has flat and undulating qualities also. Just cause people live on all types of terrains and environments and they will be looking for answers from you long-term.
It would be awesome to meet someone who has been very successful at what they do, but just want to change their way of living. Has thought about it and realized I have too much wealth and I want to make a real difference in the world. But how?
If you are a passionate person like this come join us. Unfortunately the major hurdle we face is the land. If anyone has land you can donate to the cause please let me know. This would allow our think tank of motivated people to concentrate on the major research, building , perfection and roll out a sustainability model for everyone, everywhere.
The following is just my opinion but leave out any reference about you individually.
And what you want personally, first time I watched this I saw straight through to your goal. Others might miss interpret what you want to accomplish over you wanting to setup your own little paradise escape. Who knows you might just engage with people who have not thought about it enough.
Like I said earlier just a different perspective from the other side of the world.
Ik heb vandaag je websites bij toeval gevonden. Geweldig initiatief, precious plastics, maar ik kwam ook je Project Kamp tegen. Nu wil het geval dat ik soortgelijke ideeën heb. Ik woon al ruim 30 jaar in Colombia vlak bij Pereira, zoek mij maar op op je community map.
Ik heb hier zo´n 10 Ha land in het centrum van Colombia, Op het stuk grond heb ik een champignon kweekerij en zoek naar mogelijkheden mijn hele bedrijfsvoering om te gooien en/of nieuwe dingen te gaan doen. Ben de consumptie maatschappij meer dan zat.
In Principe heb ik mijn eigen Project Kamp, al jouw ideeën en die van mij hebben veel overéén komsten al starten ze van een verschillende situatie.
ik heb geen idee of Colombia op jouw mogelijke landen lijst staat, maar mocht dit het geval zijn laat het mij dan weten dan stuur ik je wat meer informatie oven de streek waar ik woon en de mogelijkheden.
if you are still in portugal , go to mochique area that was just burned down. i-m positive some of the people that would be interested in selling. there are some rivers there some places are frost free very few places in europe like that. plus is cheap if you go deep in to the mountain area. but i would advise renting from santa casa da mesericordia they will do 20 years renting. i would advise renting not buying.
seems like cool if in indonesia…. but i dont have land that wide
Back again! I will introduce myself in a more appropriate way later. I always have been following all the projects ever since the idea of the phone block. Love the Precious Plastic initiative so much as well. So, this YouTuber went through the same adventure and might give some good advice on how to get a piece of land for cheap that is actually worthed: Here .
I think it’s not that much about open-source at all. What matters is functionality for a good price and if such commercial offer doesn’t work out or is too much of a liability for the project, then yes: there are always plenty of open-source/free software alternatives.
What I recommend is to pick any of the free offers to setup the basics: communication, trade and administration, of course with full transparency and democracy in mind otherwise you will find yourself exactly in the same scheme you’re trying (or as here: pretend) to be ahead from: a monolithic and hierarchic structure where the over-performing losers get promoted to the middle or upper management and can make key decisions fully out of their competence, exactly what we see now with DH and his companion Mattia and a few others, building more a brand, filling their pockets for some goofy made up reasons and better, surround them with enough clueless fanboys (see also the same article) than a real p2p network with some basic tools.
And I fully agree with the rest of your post, with the right network software (and there is plenty out there) you could enable p2p exchange of parts, work, plastic and what not. Instead we just got a dull, inefficient replicate of capitalism: buy buy these overprice **** machines, make a product, and sell it on our platform , making us rich with nothing in return. This should be banned altogether.
Needless to say, but there is a reason why we have now the yellow vests, the Catalonia vs Spain problem, etc.. and it’s coming all down to same problem : nobody wants some fully unsuited freaks doing important decisions for them.
And yes, technically there is enough man power in the PP community to pull this off. Pick a ticket from some task/kanban system, get paid in $$ or some new plastic currency, setup some assemblies, delegate the work to who want and everybody will be fine. This works even for quite some people around me already since years, btw. They get a hair-dress and help some else to change place.
Unfortunately with guys like DH we won’t see such things, we gonna see an even more narrow and fancy view of some designer who doesn’t know even the basics. A designer wants the interface always fancy and cute…
I don’t know what to tell more about this, I am pretty tired of all this. I just hope this kids in PP HQ wake up and realize what’s at stake here. The waste and lies should stop ASAP! that would be already a good start.
Someday I’ll share the story of how I got here tonight, but it does seem like synchronicity. For about a year I have been researching intentional communities, and spent a long time searching online for land. What I’m hearing from people who have been successful in this process, however, is not to acquire land until you have built your community. I adore the concept of Project Kamp, but I’m unlikely to move to the Netherlands from the US. Here’s an idea … are there enough people interested in living in community to develop core working groups in a few locations to explore possibilities about eco-villages with recycling/workplace incubators? I would be happy to help facilitate the process of sharing ideas and options for multiple villages organized around the brilliant ideas I’ve read about in this discussion.
Hi Adrián & all,
I recognise that landscape! Is it near Idanha, the M. Carmona dam and the Boom Festival camp? If so it’s where my father grew up and I spent part of my childhood summers.
Yes, it is rather depopulated as many areas over 100km from the coast. In the south, in Alentejo, it’s like that as close as 50km from the coast. Dave visited Tamera, mere 35kms from the coast, so he must have seen that. Closeby there are 2 great new projects, Buínho and A-F-Á-B-R-I-C-A (https://www.facebook.com/CLARAbyProjectEarth/) that I fully recomend visiting!
Castelo Branco, in Beira Baixa, has a much ‘rougher’ weather than Alentejo, but still mild for those coming from central Spain or anywhere north of the Pyrenees.
Adrián: apologies that I didn’t answer your message when you came to Lisbon but the problem was that messages from this forum where not landing in my ‘primary’ inbox, so when I saw it it was already too late and I felt ‘ashamed’… if you want to message me you can use the email adress I gave you and I can also share other options (direct SMS is the most fail-safe 😉 )
Anyway, I have no particular ‘political’ connections in the area but can at least help with some local knowledge, local language (although most people are fine with spanish) and maybe some legalities and bureaucracies.
Great news to start the week! 🙂
That is correct. In Spain almost all abandoned buildings in rural areas are ruinas.
I don’t know how much easy is to get a permission to re-build the area. I know there are protected areas that cannot be re-built. Even some guys had some legal problems a year ago because they started to re-build a protected area without permission.
As you know, in Spain initiative and innovation don’t exist. So people from outside Spain are buying those small villages. Usually old people that are looking for a place to relax or investors.
I think most of the abandoned areas are from around 1950’s. As you know, in the rural areas there are less job opportunities, so people moved to cities trying to find more opportunities.
There is a company called AlmaNatura, that is the first B-Corp of Spain (B-Corp is a new kind of corporation called ‘Benefit’ Corporation) that is working since the end of the 1990’s trying to move people to the low-inhabitant rural areas and improving the skills of the people that are already living on rural areas.
Taberna desert is located almost in the South of Spain. I don’t know almost anything about it, but reading a little bit in Google it seems that is used to record some tv films. If I remember well, there is another big dessert in Spain, maybe in Navarra, I don’t remember exactly where it’s placed. But there is a huge area near Zaragoza that is called ‘La Laponia Ibérica’ (the Iberian Lapland). It’s a huge rural area where there are almost no inhabitants.
The following link is in spanish language, but you can see how big is the inhabited area. It’s even the most inhabitated area in the whole Europe.
About other movements in Spain I have read/heard about different ones. There are some small projects that they are some years old. But focused in a very primitive way of life. You know.. you need to wash you clothes using a homemade washing machine, etc… Maybe the most know one is in the north of Spain, in Galicia. The guy is called Enzo or something like that. He is from outside Spaing and they have built like an alternative lifestyle in that area. This guy is a good guy. I have been in contact with him a couple of times throught Facebook.
Then in Catalonia there is also a project that was based on an idea of a guy that was on TV some years ago because he got in legal problems because developed a way to get money from banks or something like that. I don’t remember well.
Focused in technology, some local goverments are building a digital district trying to develop artificial intelligence solutions and trying that companies outside Spain come to Spain to work. They are similar to tech-hubs.
For sure there is more information, but I don’t usually read a lot about those topics. A search in Google can show more projects like that.
Also, in some popular forum from Spain, people tried to develop a vacational-style island and after, a small village, but at the end nothing happened. In Reddit forum the users also tried to built a Reddit city. Again, nothing happened.
I think in this kind of project there must be a robust organization, you need to develop software tools that help to make more easy all the organization, etc. It’s not the first time that I participate in this kind of project and I have seen several times why these kind of projects ends in nothing. It’s all about a lack of organization and a lack of tools that help to execute the project in a serious way.
Gracias David! Es un terreno muy pequeño para el proyecto, el terreno para Project Kamp debería andar sobre las 10 hectáreas o más.
thanks for sharing your wits buddy – from my experience in spain empty houses tend to be “ruinas” and although they look attractive you usually cant get a (re)building permit the last i heard – and noticed enough desparados willing to rip off an unsuspecting potential buyer who hasnt done their homework 😉
interestingly, some of the vacant houses/ruinas in the almeria area are even said to date from the civil war era
the info about the taberna’s desert being the only real desert in europe is actually sourced from the Andalucian government – please let me know if that info isnt correct (however,from experience seeing is believing 😉
If you have any constructive input or links regarding permaculture projects…please do feel free to share
maybe also of general (educational) interest is this idylically located project in spain http://www.sunseed.org.uk/blogs/
this area is the only true desert in europe…..mindblowing nature,geology & history
…and the most honest tapas on the iberian peninsula – YUM!
I don’t post usually in this thread, but let you know that we are also trying a similar project in Spain. At the moment we are not searching for a land, but we are creating a website and also researching on renewable energy project that is not dependent of solar light and/or wind.
It’s good to see how this thread is getting higher activity. That means there are more and more interested members.
Thanks for the positive reaction guys – long live evolution…i would have trouble just remembering 40 peoples names – so hats off there already
unfortunately i missed a visit to PP during DDW (but got a speeding ticket racing back from berlin to catch the last hours if intention counts for anything ;(
we still have find back the land details (it was a while back) but have good foto’s and film i could show when i drop by …by coincidence i’l be attending a seminar today in veghel called “future of plastics” – so if its convenient for you guys it would suit me well to drop by afterwards later today (and btw – it might also be possible for one of your dutch speaking members to make a last minute attendance by mailing [email protected]…just in case 😉
i dont have any info about your address/opening hours – so if you have a link or info its also possible to mail me on [email protected]
looking forward to dropping by – and your culinary curiosity is highly valued ! 😉
Hey all! Hehe thanks for the thought @freiblick.
And @terryball, very good points, thanks a lot!
That piece of land sounds very interesting to us indeed, could you send me some more details about it? I’m currently in charge of looking into properties, so always open for input and ideas 🙂
And feel free to come around, we’re curious about the vegan kebabs & superchoc recipes!
good questions @terryball. I think the core of kamp is still shaping as we go.. Even now we learn a lot living/working with 40 people from around the world to develop pp V4. Did you end up dropping by at the open day? I know it would make sense for me to reply here, but so many questions, more fun to answer afk 🙂
sorry, wrong picture …
actually I don´t want to to come out as an ant tattoo professional 😉 … but:
if you use https://maps.openrouteservice.org it might help you to narrow down your search even within Portugal a little bit more. As you can use Isochrone calculation around any place there. Even if you just calculate one hour (!) isochrone areas around the ten biggest cities of portugal you have already covered 1/4 of the whole country. I suppose, if you would calculate it with two hours (which is one of your requirements) then you might have nearly covered the whole coastline of Portugal.
So, … I don´t think that the requirement of “2h away from a bigger city/airport” might not realy be helpful 😉
que requisitos debe cumplir ?
There is a town in New Zealand, Lake Waitaki for sale @ NZ$2,8 million.
I live in South Africa and we have a little town that is self sufficient. The Chinese visited the town to see how they operate. They even have their own currency.
I have a GuestHouse and if you want to come and visit us, I will take you to Orania.
Danie van Heerden
Hi!! You should contact Earthship Biotecture. They build almost entirely with recycled materials and they do wonderful off grid buildings. They have similar projects and some offgrid communities thriving already! Actually, there’s one starting right now in Peru, in the Sacred Valley. If you want more information ask me. 🙂
My mail: [email protected]
Loved your video, really in line with what I’m in the process of creating with a group of likeminded people, and I love how you bring it. It inspires me to do something similar.
Second, if you’d like to talk about who you want to do this, and to see if perhaps we can find each other in a collaboration, let me know. You’ve got my email.
Third, I’m curious about the online sharing you wish to undertake, as it is something I’m keen on doing as well. So, see ‘Second’ :-).
All the best!
And we can tokenize it! Develop a Project Kamp Token for the community, incentivize human behavior. We can already start with a token without the land:)
More then one year ago we wrote a similar plan for a government-initiated contest. We became 2nd. The one who got the 1st place, was a large company (with a boring, corporate plan). It’s in The Hague, close to the station and 15.000m2. Every time I pass, still nothing is done with the land. We could try to get this working again. Let’s go to the government and see what happens. I’m in!
More then one ago we wrote a similar plan for a government-initiated contest. We became 2nd. The one who got the 1st place, was a large company (with a boring, corporate plan). It’s in The Hague, close to the station and 15.000m2. Every time I pass, still nothing is done with the land. We could try to get this working again. Let’s go to the government and see what happens. I’m in!
I would suggest land in proximity to the ocean because of the amount of plastic floating around in all the our seas. As we solve the ocean plastic collection systems then having the plastic material could be delivered right to the doorstep instead of or in addition to local collection. As they say a bigger net catches more “fish”
while you’re all waiting for the elusive piece of prime real estate to appear….i can highly recommend y’all getting to know the work of this old professor hero of mine – https://desertification.wordpress.com/2013/01/23/bottle-towers-eng-tours-de-bouteilles-fr-willem-van-cotthem/
-seeds,sun and some good ole fun lovin trash 😉
its never too late to start (…or early for that matter)
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