Step #2 – Finding a piece of land
This topic is to discuss options to find a piece of land, i’m sure there are many places available but hard to find them all from a laptop in the Netherlands. This this topic is to share ideas, sites, listings, pictures of land that is available. You might even have a friend that has a piece available.
Specially in early stage we are quite easy, never bought a piece of land so would like to explore options. A few (flexible) guidelines though.
– Netherlands would be cool, otherwise or Europe.
– Close to an airport or train station (max 1,5 hour)
– Enough surrounding green land around it.
– River in it would be sick! Otherwise we will digg a lake 😀
– Possible to live there with multiple people
– Max €80K, i guess…
Hopefully you guys are able to help out! The person that finds the land gets its own statue with name on the land. Eternal Project Kamp fame ✌️
The Salton Sea in Imperial valley, California would make a great remediation project location. Granted it is in the United States and might not fully meet some of the criteria but I urge you to at least consider it. I think it needs the most help and attention because of how important this lake is. Plenty of cheap desert land! Go big or go home. Whatcha’ think Dave?
Sneak peek time lapse of a visit to the farm in 2016.
Really thinking on this project, is there anything going on in the background?!
I wa reading about migrating regulations in Argentina and its sorprisingly easy when there is an “official” reason such as working, developing projects, home basing, etc… We have a really loose constitution in the sense of migrating burocracy.
Anyways, still interested to jump to wherever this could happen. I can recomend a few already runing places that we could add up on. If that is of interest in the comunity.
Hey Dave, is there any size requirement as a minimum ?
Back again! I will introduce myself in a more appropriate way later. I always have been following all the projects ever since the idea of the phone block. Love the Precious Plastic initiative so much as well. So, this YouTuber went through the same adventure and might give some good advice on how to get a piece of land for cheap that is actually worthed: Here .
@robb, yeah well; young people do what young people do best, messing around with everything; it takes a good portion of experience to fully understand what opensource really means, even after 30 years behind the screen I am still buffed about the interpretations one can come up with 🙂 good news is that the team in eindhoven has now more manpower but there’s more overall success from within in the community as well; i am in good faith that we’re getting there to something called status-quo; even though if I’d had to go there myself to remind them to periodically upload public funded research back to the community; lol; me sneaking through window and ‘stealing’ the v4 drawings just to get them where it belongs : github or whatever 😉
@davehakkens, ‘stop typing, start contributing’ is the biggest slap in our face ever, the height of this insult you just left here can be only beaten by the tools you gave us, sorry. you should shake your head in shame and apologize !!!
you want me to write down what the community already did and paid for you ? you want me to write down the health impacts we pay to fix your machines ?
to me it’s actually simple after figuring out the demand, interest and also hype about the precious plastic machines. it’s clear to me that we have to push harder the limits, much harder, it’s not done with a bigger shredder, period. It’s also clear to me that project kamp should not try to reinvent the wheel; I’ve seen many such projects, in many countries and only a few managed to make first things first right : have a decent living and ‘safe’ future. that means you need a hand craft in place which pays the bills (PP). From there you can archive all the neat things you think you can make better : circular economy, kilometer zero, name it …
it’s also obvious that you can’t just do a project here and there, it pays much better out to really focus on a subject for long, if you do things good, money comes by self. for instance we realized now there is no other way for us than getting a huge place (done) and put everything on PP and serve the local and global community with good machines and solutions which may create revenue (PET printers/grinders, print houses,…name it).
it makes zero sense to life on the minimum life quality edge and tackle such problems, sorry; it’s just insane, if you can’t take care about yourself, you certainly can’t take of others.
it may help to try understanding, that project kamp presents a good opportunity to run PP, the new way. micro manufacturing is the way to go. of course you can’t do that with a few solar panels 🙂
having that said, it should be clear that building this on bazaar fees, patreon and donations is plain and simple wrong; not sustainable. eating your own dogfood helps also increase the success of the project, it’s done that way since ages, in many industries and projects.
Well a job at Starbucks will in fact most likely lower your carbon footprint quite significantly. You wont be able to afford a car or a van so you can travel by bike. You wont have to move to Portugal and build an entire house because there are plenty of vacant properties in and around Eindhoven. Also travelling abroad will be less do-able because it basically will be to expensive on a minimum wage salary. That will lower some of your carbon footprint. You wont have to buy and build machines which will spare a lot of resources and energy. You wont have to use all that energy to melt down those plastics releasing those vapors into the air. No shipping costs either. Also the Starbucks minimum wage salary will facilitate a more minimalist way of living. Correct me if I’m wrong but lowering your carbon footprint is the goal right?
Wouldn’t be much to make videos about though.
No point in having someone else owning all the fuel. Monopoly is a game and when someone has won it’s supposed to go back in the box. Eat the rich. Taxing them is supposed to ensure that and it is our responsibility to make sure those policies are implemented.
Society is currently just following the path of least resistance. Couldn’t say that that is cause of any frustration. The Netherlands having a relatively big middle class filled with people with jobs who have to pay their mortgages. In France and the UK on the other hand that middle class was mostly diminished after 10 years of governments implementing ruthless austerity on it’s citizens to bail out the banks after the 2008 financial crash with tax payer money. In the UK part of the people voted for Brexit. In France we have the Gilets Jaunes still going strong. Either way the Netherlands is a tax haven for big businesses. Adds to the veneer between us and the particle board reality of neo-liberal capitalism. Which will consume everything in the end. Even human rights like privacy, housing, decent jobs, health care, education and more…
No what is cause of frustration is putting band aids on symptoms while declaring yourself to be tackling global problems. Yes sir with a “can-do” attitude and a bit of elbow grease we can clean up this mess those darned corporations left in their wake. Those consumers don’t know any better, just leave them in the American dream which has colonized every western mind like a contagious fungus. It’s called progress.
No we’d rather be nice, pose for the camera, edit ourselves and press like. Avoid confrontation and critique at all cost. Ignore your neighbor, Move down south, and make sure you look good while doing it. 😉
@kabouterbeweging, don’t even bother asking;
You can’t fix a broken car engine by replacing the headlights.
And there is no point fixing the engine, if somebody else owns all the fuel 😉
I share your frustration with current society kabouterbeweging – the problems you state about the Netherlands are the same in the UK – and, it seems, in most of the “developed” world.
Many “less developed” countries have their problems too. They are different, and arguably even worse than ours.
Maybe complete global societal collapse will happen sooner than any of us expects, or maybe we will stumble on from crisis to crisis for many years. Either way, the problems are too big for a small online community to solve. Some of us do still try – by being politically involved in our own regions – but we shouldn’t feel that our approach is the only valid one. Sometimes it is better to make a strategic retreat – both to regroup and to at least preserve a small pocket of sanity. Some people might be glad of the potential refuge when the political shit hits the fan.
Hello @pporg! I am helping in this task of finding a piece of land.
I am from Galicia, I am not sure if this kind of abandoned villages could fit with our Project, the prices are getting really expensive, and as you could read, we are looking for a big piece of land (really difficult to find it at Galicia with our budget).
I do not know why do you think that about Portugal, because is similar to Spain, the north is really similar to Galicia and the south is more like Extremadura or Andalucia, so the weather could be really different from north to south, even you could find mountains and snow where the water is not a problem.
@davehakkens, is there a particular reason to make this in Portugal, or better said in this kind of desert ? From what I learned here with the local projects in Catalonia, people seek first for places near fresh water supply (drinkable), all year around, near mountains, etc… also building on existing foundations. In Galica (bloody spain) you can buy an entire village for below 100K, lots of rain but insane beautiful and fruitful, so you save most of your (left) money and rebuild walls, windows, etc… just. I have been myself watching out for communities and many seem to suffer a lot from having no wells, good soil,… just saying, you can skip the tedious part like building from scratch (still 20 – 100K per plot).
good luck anyways 🙂
David I am already working on the polythene myself before I heard about you. I have a place and I have the knowledge. I am a mechanical engineer student and from last year I have devoted myself to clean up the Polythene and plastic waste and put them in reuse.
You can help me with it. I am gonna start the work from last week of May.
I am from India and I am gonna start work in Agra district.
Bonsoir a tous,
je viens tout juste de rejoindre la communauté. Je trouve ce projet très ambitieux et incroyable. j’aimerais en apprendre d’avantage.. merci
@georg89, lovely, just lovely ! thanks for sharing, we will visit you on our yearly ‘robinson crusoe’ trip to ‘cabo de gata’ in september. we bring you some little gratis plastic machine 🙂 In case you didn’t notice, PP is moving to Portugal (see a few more comments above: from Katharina). A pity 🙂 There are are btw. entire villages in Galicia for 100K for sale, in a not to bad shape, more importantly : having endless drinkable water going though the land. Pretty much needed to make this one right sine the water crisis should hit Spain/Portugal latestly in the next 3 years. have a nice one, guenter
Hey Precious Plastic Team! My name’s Dylan, and I am an almost graduating high school student from the U.S. I have been planning on doing a gap year starting after this summer where I’m traveling across the country searching through eco-villages, non-profits, and WOOF host farms in search of a plot of land for a community construction idea that I call “The Community Shift”… and it, to me, sounds almost EXACTLY like Project Kamp! I’d love to put our ideas together and make both our plans realities. If you guys wanna exchange info I think I might be able to find a suitable plot of land for it, and then we can get the project started! I even might be able to get some funding from the college I am applying to or some of the non-profits I’ve been contacting
Hola personas de la comunidad ,he descubierto un terreno aqui en Malaga,Spain, con una Hectárea a 30.000€ muy por debajo de el presupuesto dado, os dejo el link aqui : https://www.milanuncios.com/venta-de-fincas-en-antequera-malaga/villa-nueva-de-algaida-205386020.htm , esta a una hora +/- del aeropuerto.
no tiene ningun rio , pero tiene olivas con lo que a la larga se podria cultivar aceite propio en nuestro beneficio. atentamente David.
Dave, since you want it to be in Europe and without strong regulatory barriers – I throw in Albania! There is plenty of untouched magical land, lovely people, the Tirana airport is easy to reach from almost everywhere!
We are a project working on the utilization of abandoned military facilities, bunkers and of course the soil they were built on/in.
Most of the land remains state property and there are not all for sale. But leasing it might be an option!
Advantages: General infrastructure exists and just needs to be repaired/re-installed. Bunkers work for multiple projects, no need to invest much in infrastructure or tech-, food-, or human-storage 😀
If the race for a place is still open, I´ll upload more pictures of land I come across our research trips! With the budget you can go far in Albania!
Funny, I saw the phone block years ago and just found you again searching for plastic recycling ideas. It is a massive problem here on St. Maarten where I live.
I love this idea and would like to be involved.
My vote is to buy land in South America and I’m happy to contribute.
Looking forward to this adventure,
I’m in Lisbon and looking forward to help… at least getting people to coordinate efforts! 😉
Just sent you a direct msg!
I have piece of land in Kazakhstan
Panama has a year long growing season, ample water,rain forest, beaches.
Even if you decide not to set up here, it could still play a big part and a place you might wanna visit sometime.Currently the country has no recycling program.It also has access to both oceans.
Send me an email Katrina I have several other suggestions and we can talk more in depth.
See ya soon 🙂
here is the website “pure portugal”,
its made by sophie, a lovely woman from the uk wich lives now in portugal. i´ve joined her for a couple of weeks helping out around the garden and her house.
maybe she can help you, i´m sure she will love your project! there are quit a lot of different alternative project going on there.
maybe its a little help
I initially joined here since I admired the ideas of a low impact (no footprint) and sustainable living ProjectKamp. When so many enthusiastic people joining a new project, great things can happen. But over the weekend I was thinking about some of the above posts and started to feel that something isn’t quiet right here.
I mean, if you really want less footprints, why occupying a large area in the country side and create more buildings on it?
Nature thrives best in areas where humans are not present. Wherever we go or settle, we do have an impact. This is a major concern, since our occupation of the countryside is resulting in more loss of natural habitat all the time. There are plenty of these so-called ecovillages, probably mostly build with the best intentions, but in reality they are just another form of human settlement in areas that used to be nature or farmland. This has in reality very little to do with sustainability, regardless of the recycled wood or ecofriendly bricks used to build it.
If food needs to be provided and no footprint should be left, a truly sustainable farm would be a great idea. But such a farm is more like an organism in itself, blending in with its natural surroundings. It takes many years to develop a successful farm. But it doesn’t need lots of buildings, machines, solar panels, workspaces, windmills, sewer systems and lots of road (as in the initial picture) to provide food. But maybe ProjectKamp isn’t really so much about a sustainable and ecofriendly farm, is it?
Sorry for the rant so far, I’ll try to make my point now. If ProjectKamp is about little footprint, community, recycling and being truly sustainable, maybe it would be best suited in a place that has been taken from nature already, an old factory, office or other empty property. This way you can provide place for all the projects you want, without having to worry too much about the effect of your own presence in nature or permit limitations for your community building(s). As for your food, urban farming really needs new innovative projects. Your robotarm could assist to water and harvest for example. And recycling of nutrients and water in a closed integrated growing system is really about a sustainable future that we have to explore. Your machines, windmills, solar panels, plastic bricks will blend in much better in such area compared to the (Portuguese?) country side. If you really want to pave the way for others, then please don’t start by paving more nature.
Portugal is certainly a popular destination among permaculturists (see https://permacultureglobal.org/users ). Nice advantage is that you’ll be able to grow a much wider variety of crops and fruits compared to the north, if you have an area with milder winters.
Lots in Castelo Branco seem to go for very low prices, you can probably even find better deals when you browse the area in person and talk with the locals.
Maybe around Monsanto, if namepicking is of any importance:)
Just like anywhere else, building permits are required for all area’s, and might even need you to meet certain style-needs to ensure you blend in with the area. Again, you’ll need to check that locally, in the town hall.
Maybe the most effective way to approach this, is to make a clear plan and present that to the municipalities of your choice, preferably done by or with a local. I can imagine that some underdeveloped area’s would welcome a Kamp plan, to stimulate local activity, maybe they can even help you to find a good place…
Spain has lots of areas that are almost dessert. Almost no people live in those areas because people prefered to move to the city. There is an article in the internet that speaks about an area in Spain that is claimed to be the Iberian Stepa or something like that because almost no one is living there. There are tons of empty houses in that area. And that area is not preciselly small.
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