Step #2 – Finding a piece of land
This topic is to discuss options to find a piece of land, i’m sure there are many places available but hard to find them all from a laptop in the Netherlands. This this topic is to share ideas, sites, listings, pictures of land that is available. You might even have a friend that has a piece available.
Specially in early stage we are quite easy, never bought a piece of land so would like to explore options. A few (flexible) guidelines though.
– Netherlands would be cool, otherwise or Europe.
– Close to an airport or train station (max 1,5 hour)
– Enough surrounding green land around it.
– River in it would be sick! Otherwise we will digg a lake 😀
– Possible to live there with multiple people
– Max €80K, i guess…
Hopefully you guys are able to help out! The person that finds the land gets its own statue with name on the land. Eternal Project Kamp fame ✌️
Portugal is certainly a popular destination among permaculturists (see https://permacultureglobal.org/users ). Nice advantage is that you’ll be able to grow a much wider variety of crops and fruits compared to the north, if you have an area with milder winters.
Lots in Castelo Branco seem to go for very low prices, you can probably even find better deals when you browse the area in person and talk with the locals.
Maybe around Monsanto, if namepicking is of any importance:)
Just like anywhere else, building permits are required for all area’s, and might even need you to meet certain style-needs to ensure you blend in with the area. Again, you’ll need to check that locally, in the town hall.
Maybe the most effective way to approach this, is to make a clear plan and present that to the municipalities of your choice, preferably done by or with a local. I can imagine that some underdeveloped area’s would welcome a Kamp plan, to stimulate local activity, maybe they can even help you to find a good place…
Spain has lots of areas that are almost dessert. Almost no people live in those areas because people prefered to move to the city. There is an article in the internet that speaks about an area in Spain that is claimed to be the Iberian Stepa or something like that because almost no one is living there. There are tons of empty houses in that area. And that area is not preciselly small.
actually I don´t want to to come out as an ant tattoo professional 😉 … but:
if you use https://maps.openrouteservice.org it might help you to narrow down your search even within Portugal a little bit more. As you can use Isochrone calculation around any place there. Even if you just calculate one hour (!) isochrone areas around the ten biggest cities of portugal you have already covered 1/4 of the whole country. I suppose, if you would calculate it with two hours (which is one of your requirements) then you might have nearly covered the whole coastline of Portugal.
So, … I don´t think that the requirement of “2h away from a bigger city/airport” might not realy be helpful 😉
There is a town in New Zealand, Lake Waitaki for sale @ NZ$2,8 million.
I live in South Africa and we have a little town that is self sufficient. The Chinese visited the town to see how they operate. They even have their own currency.
I have a GuestHouse and if you want to come and visit us, I will take you to Orania.
Danie van Heerden
I’m Iggy (from London) and I run The Wildwork, a network of over 4,500 wildlife conservation professionals. I’ve been collaborating with a network of divers, business owners, conservationists, waste management activists, and NGOs in Eastern Indonesia. We’re planning to set up a collaborative workspace using your techniques on Flores island next to Komodo National Park.
We have big ideas for how we can use your technology and others to revolutionise the massive waste problem in Eastern Indonesia, which mostly doesn’t have good waste management infrastructure. In the long run, we’d love to use the waste to replace other materials like wood and cement, to tackle deforestation, pollution and climate change too… See the PowerPoint presentation of my plans so far, (also livestreamed on our FB page). We’ve got over 15 different businesses, NGOs, and environmental groups on board so far (see last few slides of the ppt). We’ve since also had Indonesian Waste Platform and DesignCrop add their hands in support of our ideas.
But I’ll cut to the chase about land – one of my supporters, Mikel (from Spain) is the owner of a dive/ecotourism island resort, and has bought some land he was planning to use for an eco growing and/or construction project. But he is very busy, and because of limited time and manpower, he can’t use the land for a project himself. I just got off the phone with him and after seeing your video for Project Kamp, and he would be interested in proposing this land to you guys to set up your community.
For a little more information on it:
1000m2 flat land, easily accessible by road. This is ex-farmers’ land, vegetables will grow here. There’s a village of farmers 5min away who could help/be employees.
20min North of Labuan Bajo town, Flores Island. This means around 20min from LBJ airport which is soon to be international.
Not sure how viable wind energy is here, but already 6 solar panels installed with batteries – 1000watt/hour, power running, can easily be supplemented with a generator if need be.
200-300m away there is a river, water can be rerouted and filtered to be drinkable relatively easily and cheaply. Construction of an artificial lake or water reservoir is possible. There is also a waterfall a 2min bike ride away.
You would need papers for the people who stay there – perhaps to be registered as a mini-company or NGO, and probably to hire local people (we know many locals who would be very keen!). Paperwork could be complicated as Indonesia is quite bureacratic, but rules and regulations can be worked around relatively easily.
– Other information:
Mikel would love it if you were planning to create eco-products, recycle, bring local people or tourists in every week to visit or learn, etc.
In Labuan Bajo, there is a very strong collaborative network of expats and businesses who are keen to protect the natural beauty of the National Park and surrounding areas, as the town develops rapidly with income from ecotourism. A lady called Pam who runs an eco-design company (DesignCrop) also owns some land and islands North of Bajo too, and I’m sure she would be very interested, so I have contacted her too and will let you know what she says.
I don’t doubt that we in Bajo have a lot to learn from you and your team. I myself have also dreamed of setting up alternative communities in the long run as part of the Wildwork’s aims, with a focus on creating a way of life from scratch that safeguards nature rather than exploits it. If we could work together with your project and our supporters in Indonesia, we could create something awesome together.
If you’re interested and you’d like to chat more, don’t hesitate to contact me via email – we can arrange a video call and talk about how to save the world.
Best of luck with your awesome projects and hoping to hear from you soon,
I don’t know if someone has said something about Spain, but there is a huge area that has almost no population. It’s called “la estepa iberica” if I remember well. In Spain, there are TONS of places that you can buy. They are mainly abandoned villages.
Здесь находится множество незадействованных заводов, Зимы холодные и снежные очень красиво. Звезды видно очень хорошо. Место плодородное и требует помощи! Прошу вас скорее прочитать это сообщение. рядом находятся небольшие горы, воздух свежий. Прошу вас, умоляю. Помогите спасти нашу природу.
Hi. Super good idea. Just bough a pice of land with two houses and 20000m2 of land in Sweden for 15000 euro. It’s super cheep and in the middle of the forest with river and a big lake nearby. 3h by train from Stockholm. Bough in June and planning to do the same thing as you are planing to do. Small houses all over for living and workshops. Big house with shared bathrooms and kitchen. And a big workshop of course. I’m starting the project in october. Pm me if you want some tip. (Buy a backhoe loader the first thing you do, helps a lot to plan the land and you can always sell it later)Greger
Kansas has an entire website devoted to giving away land to people who will move there. I considered it myself, but it’s the USA and you’d not want to get sick. You might want to talk to the people in Eigg in Scotland. They bought their own island and might be interested in having you join them.
@timthomson, nice said. i’d love to see that. needless to say but at the moment v4 is designed with any consensus of the community, the v3 repo/site needs urgent updates, since a long time. i know personally quite some people wasting their time on pp because of that. as long pp isn’t really open up to a waiting and eager community it will stay as it is now: Dave Hakkens, being the biggest bottleneck, it’s far from a ‘open source’ project per se!
about land: land isn’t the problem, i know 4 communities next to me which dealt with that pretty easy. there are models to finance the purchase land with a group of people within 6 months just. The problem is rather to find the right people at all. There are quite some sacrifices one has to go through in such environment/project. Many of such projects fail in the long as I saw on my endless visits. However, I noticed that projects like this seem only to take off when those people were already friends long before. The less exposure/openness to the public/trespassers, the better! And mostly such people have a good job/decent income, needed for the funding model. I know only of one community in the USA which could manage without external jobs, can’t remember the name but they produce high quality cheese/kefir and they are able to pay all bills with ease…
very much appreciated @timthomson! The original message came straight from my innerself, unfiltered. But indeed its very much about figuring out a blueprint for the human collective then my own little paradise. In fact “our paradise” will probably always be chaos and under development. So thanks for writing out your point of view, going to use that perspective more often in writings!
And a small update for everyone else here
Project kamp got a bit slow down because of Precious Plastic V4. However still very much on the to do list! Now we are mainly focussed on east and south Europe. Now looking into different countries/climates/visa/policies for each area to narrow down search… We will get there, just a bit slower
I’ve had a similar idea all my adult life. The following is just a different perspective on your pitch for this project . We as a growing collective of intelligent , passionate and driven human beings and need your help. Our aim is to provide a template through open source, how to sustainably build a fully self sufficient community with minimal impact on the land or environment.
To accomplish this goal we are looking for land. The parameters we are looking for are….fill with what you want. But I’d suggest land that has flat and undulating qualities also. Just cause people live on all types of terrains and environments and they will be looking for answers from you long-term.
It would be awesome to meet someone who has been very successful at what they do, but just want to change their way of living. Has thought about it and realized I have too much wealth and I want to make a real difference in the world. But how?
If you are a passionate person like this come join us. Unfortunately the major hurdle we face is the land. If anyone has land you can donate to the cause please let me know. This would allow our think tank of motivated people to concentrate on the major research, building , perfection and roll out a sustainability model for everyone, everywhere.
The following is just my opinion but leave out any reference about you individually.
And what you want personally, first time I watched this I saw straight through to your goal. Others might miss interpret what you want to accomplish over you wanting to setup your own little paradise escape. Who knows you might just engage with people who have not thought about it enough.
Like I said earlier just a different perspective from the other side of the world.
Ik heb vandaag je websites bij toeval gevonden. Geweldig initiatief, precious plastics, maar ik kwam ook je Project Kamp tegen. Nu wil het geval dat ik soortgelijke ideeën heb. Ik woon al ruim 30 jaar in Colombia vlak bij Pereira, zoek mij maar op op je community map.
Ik heb hier zo´n 10 Ha land in het centrum van Colombia, Op het stuk grond heb ik een champignon kweekerij en zoek naar mogelijkheden mijn hele bedrijfsvoering om te gooien en/of nieuwe dingen te gaan doen. Ben de consumptie maatschappij meer dan zat.
In Principe heb ik mijn eigen Project Kamp, al jouw ideeën en die van mij hebben veel overéén komsten al starten ze van een verschillende situatie.
ik heb geen idee of Colombia op jouw mogelijke landen lijst staat, maar mocht dit het geval zijn laat het mij dan weten dan stuur ik je wat meer informatie oven de streek waar ik woon en de mogelijkheden.
if you are still in portugal , go to mochique area that was just burned down. i-m positive some of the people that would be interested in selling. there are some rivers there some places are frost free very few places in europe like that. plus is cheap if you go deep in to the mountain area. but i would advise renting from santa casa da mesericordia they will do 20 years renting. i would advise renting not buying.
seems like cool if in indonesia…. but i dont have land that wide
Someday I’ll share the story of how I got here tonight, but it does seem like synchronicity. For about a year I have been researching intentional communities, and spent a long time searching online for land. What I’m hearing from people who have been successful in this process, however, is not to acquire land until you have built your community. I adore the concept of Project Kamp, but I’m unlikely to move to the Netherlands from the US. Here’s an idea … are there enough people interested in living in community to develop core working groups in a few locations to explore possibilities about eco-villages with recycling/workplace incubators? I would be happy to help facilitate the process of sharing ideas and options for multiple villages organized around the brilliant ideas I’ve read about in this discussion.
Hello Dave, hello everyone. In Russia there is a program “Far Eastern hectare”. Created for the development of the Far East. Land is given for long-term rent free of charge, subject to investment in infrastructure. I understand that this is not the most convenient location in terms of international logistics, but as an option …
I already have an old warehouse. It was a cinema, settle in the countryside, in the southeast of Spain. It is really big and it is in disuse. Now we use it to keep the olives trees tools.
Is there anyone in the UK, especially the North West who is interested in something similar? There is a group of people looking to create a co-housing community with sustainability in mind. Everyone having their own space but having communal gardens, collaboratively living a low impact lifestyle including renewable electricity and heating.
Yeh we ended up being a bit busy with Version 4. Took a lot of our time. Project Kamp will get some solid updates in 2020. 🙂
Seasteading is a Great idea. https://www.seasteading.org/
Yet I would look to getting into International waters to have or create True Freedom and become the Plastic Nation. Floating islands can be made with GHDPE Composit Structure and Graphaircrete for the Floating Modular Block
ive got some land in the US…..lets do this.
@acoira, thanks for the info. I was just worried because the recent video showed the typical desert I know from Spain, a nogo to me. Looks also extreme rocky there . this could go insane expensive to build, I also hope you have a real well (s) at least, especially if you wanna make it that big 🙂 I would also highly recommend to take an expert there to investigate the state of the soil, regardless you could recover it some time. Good luck, so PP v5 comes in 15 years then 🙂
Gracias David! Es un terreno muy pequeño para el proyecto, el terreno para Project Kamp debería andar sobre las 10 hectáreas o más.
Maybe is this a good property. It got 2 rivers, 6 hectares and the price is 80k.
I have found on the internet 3 houses with large pieces of land ( 4,5 hectare for 55000 EUR, 7,4 hectares for 79000 EUR, 6 hectares for 80000 EUR)
The site is in dutch or French ( google translate can help you) but if you want to search at your own for a piece of land you can search ‘para venda hectares’
thanks for sharing your wits buddy – from my experience in spain empty houses tend to be “ruinas” and although they look attractive you usually cant get a (re)building permit the last i heard – and noticed enough desparados willing to rip off an unsuspecting potential buyer who hasnt done their homework 😉
interestingly, some of the vacant houses/ruinas in the almeria area are even said to date from the civil war era
the info about the taberna’s desert being the only real desert in europe is actually sourced from the Andalucian government – please let me know if that info isnt correct (however,from experience seeing is believing 😉
If you have any constructive input or links regarding permaculture projects…please do feel free to share
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