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The big ELECTRONICS topic

This topic contains 44 replies, has 22 voices, and was last updated by  Sander 3 weeks ago.

5
Jerry de Vos jerzeek

The big ELECTRONICS topic

15/07/2017 at 22:15

Hi Guys,

I’ve been around now for a couple of months and I see a lot of the same questions related to electronics.
In this topic I would like to answer some of these questions.
In general its not complicated to assemble the electronics, just always be careful and don’t to stupid things 😊

The awnsers to the following questions will be in the replys down
– How much energy do the machines consume?
– Schematics for all the machines
– What parts do you need, and where do you buy them
– Tips and tricks
– decapping thermocouple
– PID
– wago connectors
– electronics of others

feel free to ask questions or suggestions for things i forgot 🙂

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warrior
15/07/2017 at 22:17
5

– How much energy do the machines consume?
This highly depends on the situation, but I can give an indication:

Shredder
1-2kW so between 1000W and 2000W continuous

Injection
At warmup 900w from the bandheaters at maximum
When it is warm it drops to 400-600w
All of this is highly dependent on the room temperature, ventilation, isolation etc.

Extrusion
Same as the injection but then with an extra motor
At warmup a maximum of 900w from the bandheaters
When it is warm it drops to 400-600w + the power of the motor (roughly 300w)
All of this is highly dependent on the room temperature, ventilation, isolation etc.

Compression
Depends on the oven you buy, most of the time these are rated for 2000w, once it’s warm it will drop
All of this is highly dependent on the room temperature, ventilation, isolation etc.

warrior
15/07/2017 at 22:25
3

-Schematics for the shredder
(click on the image to see the full schematics)

first one is option 1 for the shredder
+ only needs one motor contactor
– if you want to change direction you first have to turn it off before you can change direction

second one is option 2 for the shredder
+ only one switch
– requires two motor contactors

You can also buy a seperate motor controller, with this you can change the RPM, forward-reverse, and motor protection. the only downside is that these controllers can be a bit expensive.

Attachments:
warrior
15/07/2017 at 22:30
3

-Schematics for extrusion, injection, compression
1. extrusion
(click on the image to see the full schematics)
2. injection
(click on the image to see the full schematics)
3. compression
(click on the image to see the full schematics)

Attachments:
warrior
15/07/2017 at 22:34
6

-What parts do you need, and where do you buy them

Shredder (with reverse)
1x 3 phase motor (1-2 kw, +/- 60rpm)
1x three-way switch
Rocker-Switch
2x Motor contactor (230v relay)
3-Phase Contactor
1x Motor protection if you want

Injection
1x Switch with indicator light
Rocker-Switch
2x SSR (5A or more)
ssr,pid,thermocouple set
2x PID
ssr,pid,thermocouple set
2x k type thermocouple
ssr,pid,thermocouple set
4x 35x45mm bandheater
TCdirect
Fuse if you want

Extrusion
2x Switch with indicator light
Rocker-Switch
2x SSR (5A or more)
ssr,pid,thermocouple set
2x PID
ssr,pid,thermocouple set
2x k type thermocouple
ssr,pid,thermocouple set
3x 35x45mm bandheater
TCdirect
1x 40x45mm bandheater
TCdirect
1x motor (300w should do)
Motor controller if you want
Fuse if you want

Compression
1x Oven
1x Switch with indicator light
Rocker-Switch
1x SSR (5A or more)
ssr,pid,thermocouple set
1x PID
ssr,pid,thermocouple set
1x k type thermocouple
ssr,pid,thermocouple set

warrior
15/07/2017 at 22:56
3

– decapping thermocouple

sometimes you get this srew type thermocouple with the PID, these are a bit big to put between the bandheaters so here some pictures how to take the cap off.
1. you will need some cutting pliers and some regular pliers.
2. make two snips on both sides of the screw
3 fold the parts open en gently pull the cap off, if succecfull you will see a round tip, this needs to stay intact!

Attachments:
warrior
15/07/2017 at 22:58
1

– PID
If you have a super weird temperature readout you might have the thermocouple the wrong way around

also @faro360 had this weird problem where the PID didn’t work because the AC voltage was not correct (link)

warrior
15/07/2017 at 22:59
1

– WAGO connectors
Wago connectors are super easy to connect everything in the electronics box, and they can be reused 😊

Attachments:
warrior
15/07/2017 at 23:02
3

– electronics of others

@wkhs made his own arduino version of the PID controller, also very interesting (link)

starter
16/07/2017 at 05:45
1

@jerzeek, thanks for mentioning. I was planning to release the full schematics. But as I started my internship, I didn’t have time to correct the files.

dedicated
25/07/2017 at 20:27
1

Thanks for this post! Received most of my electronics yesterday and will be wiring them all up shortly.. nice to have one place to read it all up

new
18/08/2017 at 04:21
1

did anyone try to use the induction heater instead of those band heaters !!

new
21/08/2017 at 18:37
1

I have similar band heaters but how should I ground them? Do I solder the ground directly to the external ring of the band heater?

The specific band heaters I own are as shown below:
Tempco Band Heater 200W 240V (MBH02929)

starter
01/11/2017 at 09:38
1

Hi can anyone give me a complete set of specifications for the 3 phase AC induction motor. Or at least help to approve/correct mine:
1) 60-70 rpm
2) 1.5-2Kw or 2-3HP
3) 60 Nm (torque)
4) 220-230V
5) 6.8A
(this is based on research i did from the motor forum here)

i have trouble getting all of the specs on a specific motor especially for the Torque. My motor options for the torque is at a max of 20Nm, and also most of these rpm’s are very high but i think that is where the gearbox reducer comes in.
Can anyone help me to explain or give a link for me to order motor with the accurate spec needed?

warrior
23/11/2017 at 13:30
1

@chamlal
No didn’t try, but it should work, cause it’s metal 🙂

@dunkingmidget
it’s best to ground them, but not necessary to function, yes you can solder it to the outside.

@thewan4you
for shredder specs:

(Almost) Definitive guide on Motors (WIP)

Share your Shredder motor experience

new
06/12/2017 at 23:09
1

These are What I ordered everything or direction is Chinese are these going to work or am I going to see fireworks?

Attachments:
warrior
07/12/2017 at 08:09
2

@qcourt716, the model seems fine. You can find some setup instructions on Youtube.

new
14/01/2018 at 04:59
0

Hi, I can see an small issue at least for my country the regular voltage for home is 120v… It means that a warehouse with specific 220v input is going to be reqiired 😞

starter
15/02/2018 at 17:22
1

I had a question, but what would be worse than a 2 kW motor and 1 phase and the same motor with 3 phases? In fact, the opportunity and torque will be the same.

dedicated
15/02/2018 at 18:16
1

@Dracula, 3 phase is more efficienty than mono phase and sometimes smaller with same power but 380 / 400v 3 pase is not easy to find (or impossible) at home, so the monophase motor is a good choice for diy applications.

dedicated
15/02/2018 at 18:24
1

@thewan4you The torque of the motor is not a problem, usually a 750w motor single phase 4 poles 1500 rpm/min has about 6 Nm but with a gearbox reducer 1/50 the torque will be 300Nm at 30rpm output or 180Nm at 50 rpm, these are average numbers….
I think it coulb be enough but for sure with a 1.1 Kw will be better. I can Buy motors single phase with reductor 47 / 56 rpm or less with double direction and emergency stop, ready to go for 360€ + shipping, monophase or 3 phase.

starter
14/04/2018 at 06:16
1

Hi recyclers, I had problem with injection electronics:
Everything is set up, but two of my band heaters conduct electricity. Also two switches are burned til now.
Help meee.

starter
14/04/2018 at 08:17
1

Jerzeek, any specifications and/or images of the fuse to use in injection and extrusion?

warrior
16/04/2018 at 21:35
1

@faridahmadsofizada There’s no need for fusing if you know what you are doing and all your connections are properly grounded and insulated. Fuse specifications cannot be provided because every machine has different amp requirements depending on the wattage of your heat elements, motor specs, etc…

new
19/04/2018 at 20:34
0

hello,

so i have ordered all PID (sensor and SSR), button switch and band heater but do i need specific power supply unit? the diagram is unclear at the Vsource area. so my question is, do i need a specific power supply? If yes, what type of power supply i need to use? can u use PC power supply which got 1000watt? If this type of power source can be use how to assign the cables for all the electronics?

new
10/05/2018 at 22:07
0

Hi there fellow recyclers!

First of all, thank You for this forum topic, it helped me a lot to understand the electrical working of the machines.

There are some gray areas left though, and I hope somebody can help me with this question.
Jerzeek posted the schematics (with reverse function) on this thread, and it is clear, but what I need help with is the motor protection.

Here I have two questions:

1. The contactors he recommended are good, but it would be even better if there would be the interlocking mechanism (which prevents the contactors to be on at the same time), and the overload protection unit posted as well here on the forum.

Question 1: Can somebody recommend me a contactor with interlock and overload protection for a 1,5 kW motor (3,6 Ampere at 400 Volts)?

Preferably with links to a site where i can order them, or at least a product number.

2. Besides the contactors and their overload and interlocking unit, do I need any other type/kind of motor protection? If yes, could someone recommend a model/link to the item?

Thank You in advance and hope to get some answers and wash the grey cloud to white 🙂

new
16/05/2018 at 17:51
0

amazing, thanks for posting your findings here!, saves me endless hours to get this all sorted.
g

starter
20/07/2018 at 20:12
0

Hello everyone,

I’m working on the injection machine electronics, the only thing that I’m struggling with is what to do with the earth cable. We have an earth cable from our power cord but nowhere obvious to connect it to the band heaters. I think we have a couple of options: a) connect it in some way to the band heaters (but don’t know how) or b) ignore the earth cable all together (does this mean we should disconnect the earth cable connection from the plug?)

Has anyone had any similar issues, how did you resolve it? I’ve uploaded a couple of images that should explain things a little better. Thanks so much!

Attachments:
helper
21/07/2018 at 10:42
0

@ollie2019 You must ground every metal piece which you are able to touch from outside and which could conduct the AC-power in case of a problem. As the injection machine is full metal, it is enough to ground the base for example, and to check conductivity on the handle and the barrel with a multimeter (beep beep in Resistance-mode)

21/07/2018 at 11:09
2

yes, thats correct, let me re-phrase to make sure.
– metal frame/base :  connected to ground
– any control-box (don’t use wood !): connected to ground, possibly it’s already connected to the frame so you can skip it, just make really sure, use a multi-meter as described by sonik
– SSR relays should be actually mounted on an old CPU cooler and it’s more likely mounted inside the control-box, if not, connect to ground
– when using motors: make sure the motor’s outer surfaces are connected to ground
– don’t create multiple ground cables (aka ground loop) along the same conductor (metal frame)
– injection/extrusion barrel is more likely mounted to the metal frame and so it’s grounded too, just make really sure

starter
21/07/2018 at 18:23
0

@sonik and @anne-barbier

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply! Just to double check my understanding then…

If: a) the SSRs are attached to the metal control box (like in the PP video) and b) the control box is connected to the metal frame, then I just need to make sure that the base is grounded? Not the heating bands? So that will be one the ground cable from the power cord connected just to one element?

If that is correct, my next question is – where would you recommend to connect the base to the ground?

Thanks once again!

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