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The big ELECTRONICS topic

This topic contains 44 replies, has 22 voices, and was last updated by  Sander 3 weeks ago.

5
Jerry de Vos jerzeek

The big ELECTRONICS topic

15/07/2017 at 22:15

Hi Guys,

I’ve been around now for a couple of months and I see a lot of the same questions related to electronics.
In this topic I would like to answer some of these questions.
In general its not complicated to assemble the electronics, just always be careful and don’t to stupid things 😊

The awnsers to the following questions will be in the replys down
– How much energy do the machines consume?
– Schematics for all the machines
– What parts do you need, and where do you buy them
– Tips and tricks
– decapping thermocouple
– PID
– wago connectors
– electronics of others

feel free to ask questions or suggestions for things i forgot 🙂

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warrior
15/07/2017 at 22:34
6

-What parts do you need, and where do you buy them

Shredder (with reverse)
1x 3 phase motor (1-2 kw, +/- 60rpm)
1x three-way switch
Rocker-Switch
2x Motor contactor (230v relay)
3-Phase Contactor
1x Motor protection if you want

Injection
1x Switch with indicator light
Rocker-Switch
2x SSR (5A or more)
ssr,pid,thermocouple set
2x PID
ssr,pid,thermocouple set
2x k type thermocouple
ssr,pid,thermocouple set
4x 35x45mm bandheater
TCdirect
Fuse if you want

Extrusion
2x Switch with indicator light
Rocker-Switch
2x SSR (5A or more)
ssr,pid,thermocouple set
2x PID
ssr,pid,thermocouple set
2x k type thermocouple
ssr,pid,thermocouple set
3x 35x45mm bandheater
TCdirect
1x 40x45mm bandheater
TCdirect
1x motor (300w should do)
Motor controller if you want
Fuse if you want

Compression
1x Oven
1x Switch with indicator light
Rocker-Switch
1x SSR (5A or more)
ssr,pid,thermocouple set
1x PID
ssr,pid,thermocouple set
1x k type thermocouple
ssr,pid,thermocouple set

warrior
15/07/2017 at 22:17
5

– How much energy do the machines consume?
This highly depends on the situation, but I can give an indication:

Shredder
1-2kW so between 1000W and 2000W continuous

Injection
At warmup 900w from the bandheaters at maximum
When it is warm it drops to 400-600w
All of this is highly dependent on the room temperature, ventilation, isolation etc.

Extrusion
Same as the injection but then with an extra motor
At warmup a maximum of 900w from the bandheaters
When it is warm it drops to 400-600w + the power of the motor (roughly 300w)
All of this is highly dependent on the room temperature, ventilation, isolation etc.

Compression
Depends on the oven you buy, most of the time these are rated for 2000w, once it’s warm it will drop
All of this is highly dependent on the room temperature, ventilation, isolation etc.

warrior
15/07/2017 at 23:02
3

– electronics of others

@wkhs made his own arduino version of the PID controller, also very interesting (link)

warrior
15/07/2017 at 22:56
3

– decapping thermocouple

sometimes you get this srew type thermocouple with the PID, these are a bit big to put between the bandheaters so here some pictures how to take the cap off.
1. you will need some cutting pliers and some regular pliers.
2. make two snips on both sides of the screw
3 fold the parts open en gently pull the cap off, if succecfull you will see a round tip, this needs to stay intact!

Attachments:
warrior
15/07/2017 at 22:30
3

-Schematics for extrusion, injection, compression
1. extrusion
(click on the image to see the full schematics)
2. injection
(click on the image to see the full schematics)
3. compression
(click on the image to see the full schematics)

Attachments:
warrior
15/07/2017 at 22:25
3

-Schematics for the shredder
(click on the image to see the full schematics)

first one is option 1 for the shredder
+ only needs one motor contactor
– if you want to change direction you first have to turn it off before you can change direction

second one is option 2 for the shredder
+ only one switch
– requires two motor contactors

You can also buy a seperate motor controller, with this you can change the RPM, forward-reverse, and motor protection. the only downside is that these controllers can be a bit expensive.

Attachments:
dedicated
21/07/2018 at 11:09
2

yes, thats correct, let me re-phrase to make sure.
– metal frame/base :  connected to ground
– any control-box (don’t use wood !): connected to ground, possibly it’s already connected to the frame so you can skip it, just make really sure, use a multi-meter as described by sonik
– SSR relays should be actually mounted on an old CPU cooler and it’s more likely mounted inside the control-box, if not, connect to ground
– when using motors: make sure the motor’s outer surfaces are connected to ground
– don’t create multiple ground cables (aka ground loop) along the same conductor (metal frame)
– injection/extrusion barrel is more likely mounted to the metal frame and so it’s grounded too, just make really sure

warrior
07/12/2017 at 08:09
2

@qcourt716, the model seems fine. You can find some setup instructions on Youtube.

warrior
04/08/2018 at 21:10
1

@ollie2019 There are different types of REX-C100 controllers, check the part number against the manual, eg. REX C100FK02-V is the SSR output, REX C100FK02-M is the relay output. If you have the -M it’s possible to remove the relay, jump the connections for the relay coil straight to the output pins and use this to drive a SSR. There was a tutorial with pictures on the forum a while back, but it’s easy to figure out if you open the unit.

starter
04/08/2018 at 17:07
1

Thanks everyone for all of you help so far!

We have managed to set up the electronics as per the schematics and photos seen in this post. We’re 98% sure we have done it correctly!

However, the bands are not heating when connected to the full circuit. We have tested each individual component and all of them seem to be functioning. We performed a test with a 9 volt battery on each of the SSRs 25DA – both worked and responded to current (light turned on). We connected each heater band directly to 220 and all four worked. The thermocouples are both working and reads the correct temperature on the PID controllers. The REX C100 PID controllers are both turning on and click when trying to reach the SV (we used our body heat to heat the thermocouple). We did a separate test with the battery, the SSRs and the band heaters and that also worked.

We have probably watched every single YouTube video to try and ensure our wiring has been done correctly and there doesn’t seem to be any obvious reason why it shouldn’t work! The current is reaching the PID but isn’t getting transferred into the SSR, meaning the circuit isn’t completed. We think there are two options:

1) The settings on the REX C100 are incorrect (although the audible click when trying to reach SV seems to suggest otherwise??)

2) The PID controllers arrived with the connecting screws in terminals 1, 2, 3 and 4. I moved 3 to 5. I can’t think why this would be a problem but it might be?

Has anyone had any similar experiences? Is there any known programming of the PID that will activate or deactivate the current being passed to the SSR?

Thank you so much!

warrior
24/07/2018 at 13:10
1

‘Ground loop’ – this is a totally different issue and really not relevant here.

 

For a start the safety connection is an ‘Earth’, not a ‘Ground’ (the terms are often confused). In normal use there is no current flowing through it, it is only to provide a return path in case of insulation failure, to lessen the chance of electric shock if you happen to be touching a bare metal part. (A ‘ground’ in a circuit provides a return current path in normal operation).

 

You should connect the earth to any metal part that has live wires going through it or where there is a possibility of it becoming live should a wire become loose or damaged. If multiple metal parts are bolted together it’s not usually necessary to earth every individual one, though there is no problem in doing this (it won’t create ‘loops’), machines often have motors which are earthed and also have a separate earth connection (or more than one) to the chassis. If metal parts are painted before being bolted together this can insulate them from each other so multiple connections are not a bad idea. You do not need to earth metal parts that are insulated from the rest of the machine if they are not near any live wires, eg. a metal handle on the end of a plastic lever.

 

A ‘ground loop’ only effects sensitive electronic circuits which are susceptible to small changes in supply voltage, such as high gain amplifiers and low current microcontroller circuits. The ground here is always carrying current when the circuit is powered. If you have multiple electronic circuits running from a single power supply, the normal practice is to connect the power connections in a ‘star’, each circuit directly connected to the supply. If you connect them ‘daisy chain’ fashion you create ‘loops’ where the current from each circuit gets added/divided and this causes electrical noise between the circuits, especially if you have a high current or inductive device next to a low power circuit. Much better explanation here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_loop_(electricity)

helper
21/07/2018 at 21:25
1

@ollie2019 Yep, you just connect your earth wire to the frame or the box or whatever, but make sure that all accessible elements are grounded by their physical connections, e.g.screws.

@anne-barbier Is there any explication for your statement: “– don’t create multiple ground cables (aka ground loop) along the same conductor (metal frame)” ?

warrior
16/04/2018 at 21:35
1

@faridahmadsofizada There’s no need for fusing if you know what you are doing and all your connections are properly grounded and insulated. Fuse specifications cannot be provided because every machine has different amp requirements depending on the wattage of your heat elements, motor specs, etc…

starter
14/04/2018 at 08:17
1

Jerzeek, any specifications and/or images of the fuse to use in injection and extrusion?

starter
14/04/2018 at 06:16
1

Hi recyclers, I had problem with injection electronics:
Everything is set up, but two of my band heaters conduct electricity. Also two switches are burned til now.
Help meee.

dedicated
15/02/2018 at 18:24
1

@thewan4you The torque of the motor is not a problem, usually a 750w motor single phase 4 poles 1500 rpm/min has about 6 Nm but with a gearbox reducer 1/50 the torque will be 300Nm at 30rpm output or 180Nm at 50 rpm, these are average numbers….
I think it coulb be enough but for sure with a 1.1 Kw will be better. I can Buy motors single phase with reductor 47 / 56 rpm or less with double direction and emergency stop, ready to go for 360€ + shipping, monophase or 3 phase.

dedicated
15/02/2018 at 18:16
1

@Dracula, 3 phase is more efficienty than mono phase and sometimes smaller with same power but 380 / 400v 3 pase is not easy to find (or impossible) at home, so the monophase motor is a good choice for diy applications.

starter
15/02/2018 at 17:22
1

I had a question, but what would be worse than a 2 kW motor and 1 phase and the same motor with 3 phases? In fact, the opportunity and torque will be the same.

new
06/12/2017 at 23:09
1

These are What I ordered everything or direction is Chinese are these going to work or am I going to see fireworks?

Attachments:
warrior
23/11/2017 at 13:30
1

@chamlal
No didn’t try, but it should work, cause it’s metal 🙂

@dunkingmidget
it’s best to ground them, but not necessary to function, yes you can solder it to the outside.

@thewan4you
for shredder specs:

(Almost) Definitive guide on Motors (WIP)

Share your Shredder motor experience

starter
01/11/2017 at 09:38
1

Hi can anyone give me a complete set of specifications for the 3 phase AC induction motor. Or at least help to approve/correct mine:
1) 60-70 rpm
2) 1.5-2Kw or 2-3HP
3) 60 Nm (torque)
4) 220-230V
5) 6.8A
(this is based on research i did from the motor forum here)

i have trouble getting all of the specs on a specific motor especially for the Torque. My motor options for the torque is at a max of 20Nm, and also most of these rpm’s are very high but i think that is where the gearbox reducer comes in.
Can anyone help me to explain or give a link for me to order motor with the accurate spec needed?

new
21/08/2017 at 18:37
1

I have similar band heaters but how should I ground them? Do I solder the ground directly to the external ring of the band heater?

The specific band heaters I own are as shown below:
Tempco Band Heater 200W 240V (MBH02929)

new
18/08/2017 at 04:21
1

did anyone try to use the induction heater instead of those band heaters !!

dedicated
25/07/2017 at 20:27
1

Thanks for this post! Received most of my electronics yesterday and will be wiring them all up shortly.. nice to have one place to read it all up

starter
16/07/2017 at 05:45
1

@jerzeek, thanks for mentioning. I was planning to release the full schematics. But as I started my internship, I didn’t have time to correct the files.

warrior
15/07/2017 at 22:59
1

– WAGO connectors
Wago connectors are super easy to connect everything in the electronics box, and they can be reused 😊

Attachments:
warrior
15/07/2017 at 22:58
1

– PID
If you have a super weird temperature readout you might have the thermocouple the wrong way around

also @faro360 had this weird problem where the PID didn’t work because the AC voltage was not correct (link)

new
14/01/2018 at 04:59
0

Hi, I can see an small issue at least for my country the regular voltage for home is 120v… It means that a warehouse with specific 220v input is going to be reqiired 😞

starter
27/09/2018 at 10:50
0

Hey guys,

I pulled this 240v indicator light from the oven I am going to use to build the compression.
Now I want to use this and also have the fan in the oven running when I flip on the switch. Now they both say they run at 240v, still given the amount off electricity on them I am hesitant to connect them.

Would like to hear from someone to confirm how to connect the fan and indicator light, just to be sure.

Thanks so much in advance, once I am certain about this I can start building the electronics in the compression machine!!

starter
24/08/2018 at 12:07
0

Thanks for your response @anne-barbier, i will do that. Ive done it a couple of times actually but it doesnt hurt to do it again.

 

Do you or anyone else know how to reset it to factory settings?

Did you change anything after recieving it in order to get it to work?

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