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Tools for realtime communication

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This topic contains 22 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Anonymous 1 year ago.

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Arthur Lutz arthurlutz

Tools for realtime communication

04/06/2019 at 15:34

This is a follow up of the discussion that has started (offtopic in my opinion) in https://davehakkens.nl/community/forums/topic/governance-code-of-conduct about communication tools

@donald you mention discord as a good choice for this.

I would recommend something open source and federated such as Riot/Matrix, see https://switching.social/ethical-alternatives-to-slack/ More info on https://matrix.org/ and https://riot.im/app (but maybe one army has this feature planned).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discord_(software) is a freemium propriatery software which has little garanties as far as privacy is concerned.

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04/06/2019 at 16:01
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great stuff, let me add a few cents, as sys-admin guy with a few decades background in cooperates and non-profit activities :

opensource is great but comes often with a penalty, matrix org is based on python (makes sense) and other modern languages; i don’t think there is enough manpower/skills to maintain and extend this over long. we often switched back to commercial services in companies, for many reasons like ‘it just works’; nonetheless, I don’t think that down-times are that crucial for PP but being extendable is definitely a corner feature.  i heard that rocket-chat worked this further out with a larger magnitude than matrix (neat, really, i like it) currently has.

warrior
04/06/2019 at 21:11
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I’ll take some time tomorrow to check all the options for realtime communication and report back.

I’ll also (re)check discord with the Freemium in mind.

And look into video communication options (like what the Rotterzwam guys use for their live seminars).

 

Maybe there’s even a WordPress plugin that could work.

I’ll keep an open mind!

 

04/06/2019 at 21:45
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eventually it could be more viable to extract valuable information from such communications; documentation on the go, OSA had some thoughts this way; perhaps state-of-the-art e-learning platforms have something more to offer nowadays. … just thinking loud … technically, a communication could be turned into documentation, faqs, … bug reports, etc…, the last works i’ve done for $$ only was about this kinda stuff, record user sessions and then extract end-2-end tests, etc… works well with an AI driven back-end, at scale.
so in your tool selection candidates, evtl. you can make some hops over to e-learning, expensive i guess.

04/06/2019 at 21:51
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i think the guys in france worked this all out pretty well (rocket chat)

warrior
04/06/2019 at 21:57
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I get where you are going with the e-learning.

PP/OneArmy being a not-for-profit, might give some leeway regarding licensing fees….

 

Might however be overkill for what we are looking for here, now.

 

Thanks for the github link. I had indeed read te page before, but had forgotten about it.

Might be problem solved!

04/06/2019 at 22:18
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thinking a little further, we had quite some people being happy to get here hospitality before walking off with their new machines; it easily takes 5+ hours to make them familiar with every bolt, button and problem. i tried recording it, edit it and just add text to a new article but a few iterations later i’d have to return all over again. if i’d go on like this, i’d have a 100 – 200 videos in less than six months, sucks big time. i am adding this because it was about ‘tools FOR rt-com’; no idea buddy, eventually you could narrow it down to a list of tools with interesting features we could vote on …

warrior
04/06/2019 at 22:30
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I’m not satisfied untill there does not have to be a vote 🙂

 

Note it also says toolS.

There does not need to be a “one size fits all” solutions, just enough solutions to fit all.

 

As for the videos, this is also one of the underused resources of the Forum.

There are plenty of people interested in making the videos.

They just need access to the machines.

Let them figure out to re-edit the videos with new information.

That’s what they (say they) like to do!

 

BTW (for those reading along), notice there should indeed be a realtime communication tool? This conversation is a living example for the need!

For now it’s okay, but now imagine 40 of these conversation going on at the same time.

The forum would only be about the forum, not about disseminating information…

 

04/06/2019 at 23:05
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now you’re saying it, indeed, i am not sure RT is really needed per-se in the todo-list for PP. I often tend to use my megalomaniac side in case of doubt to look first at the very best solutions for the actual problems at hand :

1. operational/spontaneous communication which can be turned into
2. valuable information, ie : tutorials, manuals, FAQ, or vice versa

not sure what system(s) gets us there but it’s all i’d need at the moment and i don’t expect much more than this.

the github issue system is really great in those matters, you can reference other content.

warrior
04/06/2019 at 23:25
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Has anybody ever tried to use github as a pure communication platform?

(I mean without a project, just a communication tool).

Would be a funny hack 🙂

I mean: code also just is text, right?

 

I agree it is best to first look at as wide an angle as possible, as long as the ‘question’ is still in sight. This is also how the whole internet itself got started.

Looking for a simple means of communication…

Boy, did it get out of hand…

 

 

04/06/2019 at 23:40
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gh, let me check, i abused their API for all sorts of things, from VirtualFileSystems with meta infos and revisions to hack pads, judging by the APPs build in top it might be possible. btw. that very megalomaniac side brought me into lots of troubles but always a joyful ride, life is often quickly boring for me 😉

05/06/2019 at 23:18
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github: check, API & stack provides enough to build a RT com, knowledge-base, revisions, all file based; no middle man etc needed .. having $$-soft taking care of Github; you can be sure it’s their light going off as last on this very planet.

warrior
06/06/2019 at 16:04
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@arthurlutz

Okay, you’ve got me convinced.

Matrix seems to be the only platform that is dedicated to actually connecting to other platforms, and as such would be able to also incorperate existing channels like discords(!) and slacks(!)

Strangely enough no bridge to github, but maybe I have not yet looked hard enough…

 

Must say though I have not yet field tested matrix/riot.

I leave that for tomorrow (might need some server installs)

06/06/2019 at 16:14
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rocket.chat, rocket.chat! i’ve seen no other candidate done so much work in all directions. It’s JavaScript so any beginner can deal with it. Python (matrix) is usually used by folks who have a well paid back-end job; There are worlds between and nonetheless, I hope decisions are not done on ideological grounds… Github integrations go only so far that there will be notifications when content changed, etc… As far adding support for RT messengers, i don’t see the reason except SSO.

06/06/2019 at 16:28
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btw, the mentioned french guy worked this out so well; they based their entire platform on it. the onearmy team and me spoke with him and I have to confess, I am very impressed (not easy); picking it up can be only win win for PP, communecter.org and PP forks. again, relying on many instead on a few is the way I’d always chose.

warrior
06/06/2019 at 16:34
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@xamiro

The rocketchat link above (issue 430) only poined to communecter which is basically still in development hell, so yes, I overlooked rocketchat.

I have now also looked up rocketchat directly, and I’ll also give it a spin.

 

I must however admit I’m not just looking at the realtime communication, but also the options for exchanging information between platforms, because a lot of people are allready using the realtime communication platforms they like most, and won’t be inclined to install ‘yet another one’.

So in a way my current vote for matrix is influenced by the fact you could also use rocketchat, others discord and still others slack, while still being in communication with each other.

 

The most used ‘client’ of Matrix is riot btw.

Matrix is basically just the protocol.

06/06/2019 at 16:48
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right, my bad; yet, i wouldn’t bother about riot or matrix; just judging by the Github metrics (issues, contributors, etc…) it’s rocketchat for me 🙂

communecter.org might be ‘beta’ but i know from him, it’s deployed for ~100 communities across France, for many different contexts. i think he also added inter-org up/down-stream features.

I think i’d focus on use cases and/or exact workflows first before pinning features and interop; you’re right, sometimes, it’s better to go from small 🙂 In regard of PPHQ, we still have a few meetings here to do but I know for now, there is no further communication desired or needed, makes sense looking at a ~3K -and counting- bill we’re sitting on after all . RT is great as said when working on stuff together, chitchat on the other hand; well, i think in person it makes more fun 😉
g

warrior
06/06/2019 at 17:00
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Well you being in contact with the communecter.org guy might explain why ‘the Netherlands’ isn’t on the map 😉

Them still being in Beta would be the other explanation.
I really like their intend to do the same as matrix does, only a bit more symphatetic, but it’s also nice if something actually works….

 

Rocket.chat as an alternative for slack I immediately see.

Meeting in person, well get’s tricky quite fast in a global community.

Also why my main focus is local…

…and in connecting local initiatives.

 

I’m looking for an ‘all of the above’ kind of a solution.

Wish me luck…

06/06/2019 at 17:17
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honestly, looking at the mentioned key audiences of PP it’s quite a task; would make me busy 6 months at the drawing board alone, with near to nil data. Also, at some point you have to analyze the relations (directions,..) among them but also the types of content (values, benefits) and more importantly; how can you extract information and add value to each chain …. after-all, you may end up in a cluster f** of diagrams, tool selection, etc … i hope I don’t need to tell the ending, a certain way that it was for nothing; not trying to demotivate you, really not. we’re far from having any status quo in anything and there’s lots of brain work ahead but just point out again; the bottlenecks at hand won’t open up;
ah, before I forget it again: <3 and godspeed

warrior
06/06/2019 at 17:21
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True, luckily I’m not just looking for PP, but from a more grassroots point of view…

new
19/06/2019 at 19:05
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hey, my PP nightshift begins and I have to get all saved PP software projects out before killer August, it’s already insane hot. The only real big item left in the list is the ‘PP Web Starter KIT’, basically a full-fledged wordpress (~2000 Euro in plugin licenses) addressing all the needs for PP (or related) starters, groups, volunteers (later more about).

However, I’d love to see a pre-configured RT com as optional component stack. I have so far only one candidate with noteworthy WordPress integration  , rocketchat. If you found more beyond those we already mentioned, let me know please. Sunday I will plug whatever is there.
great, thanks
g

warrior
19/06/2019 at 19:40
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I checked, and Rockerchat is only free up to 1.000 users on your own server.
This is only a ‘recommendation’, but in my experience this kind of software is build to fail when reaching those specs.
My intended uses and purposes are way beyond 1.000 users…

 

 

new
19/06/2019 at 19:56
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right, thx; as said, the leg work is done and I am really impressed what the WordPress eco system has to offer nowadays; you could rebuilt Liferay somehow, and better … anyway, drop me a PM to make you a copy of pp.org which currently acts merely as PP.me or better said PP.us prototype 😉

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