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V4 Adhesives

This topic contains 8 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  Adrian Coira 7 months ago.

1
Adrian Coira acoira

V4 Adhesives

20/02/2019 at 16:44

Hello!

From V4 we are also trying to test a processes that could be useful for the community when we have to make or to develop new products made of “Precious Plastic”. Within this topic, we have the requirment to bond pieces of plastic, which is usually tricky with normal adhesives we have access to. Due to the nature of the bonds between the particles which made our plastic being plastic, not every adhesive are good for every plastic and is not easy to find adhesives which work properly with them.

I am going to show you a little overview of some adhesives, what are they made of and what they can be used for. Also, I will tell you some “issues” that we have to think and rethink before starting to bond with adhesives.

The first thing I want to advise you is that all these adhesives are oil-products, which means that all the things that we do not like from plastic, are included in this adhesives 🙁 , sorry. So, since I am not a fan of this if you can avoid them is always better.

I have found also some reasons for not use them:
Packaging: There are two mean types of packaging for this adhesives, depends on if there are two components adhesives or just single. Anyway, the packaging is always single use, and that ones which are made of two components have a mixer that is single-single use, which means that each time you use the adhesive you have to throw it away…bad bad bad.
Price: These kind of industrial adhesives are not really cheap…
Difficult to recycle after: You should know that each time you use these adhesives you are adding a little part of new material to your piece, which means that it is going to be a little bit less recyclable. After using them, is not going to be possible to separate them again, so less purity of your material.
Times to curate: The time to curate the bond is not always the same, depends a lot of the adhesive and the weather where you live in. Sometimes it can take a lot of time, which is going to make your process longer. By the way, there is some of them like the hot glues which are the opposite, are really fast to curate so you should be very careful where you make the bond.
Hazardous : This is not really a material that you want to touch, to breath, to eat, to lick… check the safety cards before using them please, and take care of yourself. Safety first.

If you know more adhesives which work or you can share your experience working with them, please, share your knowledge!

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In reply to: V4 Adhesives

helper
20/02/2019 at 17:36
1

Test: Bond PP and HDPE with Epoxi based adhesive

Objective: Bond PP and HDPE with adhesives

Material: PP and HDPE

Tools: Clamps, drill, luggage scale, adhesive

Adhesives used:
Weicon HT 180
https://www.weicon.de/media/pdf/f1/cc/4f/TDS_10650850_EN_Easy-Mix_HT_180_Epoxy_Adhesive.pdf
Safety:
https://www.weicon.de/media/pdf/d6/bb/6e/MSDS_106542_EN_EN_Easy-Mix-HT-180-Hardener.pdf
https://www.weicon.de/media/pdf/94/59/4c/MSDS_106541_EN_EN_Easy-Mix-HT-180-Resin.pdf

Proccess
To cut pieces of PP and HDPE with a size of 100mm x 20mm x 20mm.
To clean the surfaces with IPA(Isopropyl Alcohol) and Scotch Brite to remove the vaselin, demoulding product or different dirty stuff.
To extend the adhesive in a surface of 20mm x 20mm and clamp two pieces. Leave them curating for 24h to be sure that all of the bonds are totally curated(this should be around 20ºC, if the temperature is lower it is going to take more time, each 8ºC the timing of curating becames double than the especifications).
To test the strenght of the bond, clamping one part of the piece and pulling from the other side with the luggage scale (to know how many kilograms it can support).This is a rough experiment, since we have not perfect bonded surfaces, and material for a proprer experiment. It is mainly for knowing which one is better as a comparation.

Conclusions
This did not work at all. Not recommended

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In reply to: V4 Adhesives

warrior
21/02/2019 at 09:30
2

hey @acoira !
have you thought of keeping the plastic/bond monomaterial ?
by heating up locally the plastic, you can fuse parts together quite easily !
i’ve been doing some tests so far with a heatgun and a plancha (to be able to have the same heat applied on the side of my 10cm squares)

Have only tested so far with LDPE and works a charm !

(planning to try with PS & PLA soon too)
cheers !

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In reply to: V4 Adhesives

warrior
21/02/2019 at 19:29
0

@imuh Looks like great results, especially on the tile edges. Could you describe your process a little more? Also, have you done any evaluation of the strength of the joints?

Thanks

In reply to: V4 Adhesives

warrior
22/02/2019 at 09:21
1

Hey @s2019 !

Well the process is quite simple to be honest and follows the principle of thermoplastics recycling;

If you want to work with plastic, all you REALLy need is heat; the right temperature to make your plastic change from solid state to soft/jelly-like state.

 

If you are able to bring that raise of temperature locally, the spots heated will start melting. As soon as it’s the case, put the 2 products together (melted spots being the contact point) and tighten them together.

 

Wait for it to cool down to solidify, tada !

ps : the obvious limit to the technique is that you cannot bind 2 different types of plastics together

In reply to: V4 Adhesives

helper
22/02/2019 at 12:55
1

Hi @imuh!
Yes! Of course keep monomaterial is the best option always, but I just want to show a little overview of different kind of adhesives which could be interesting for different aplications. We are going to test all the ways to bond, we just started with this.

I am just testing now an adhesive made of EPS + D-Limonene, and it seems that works good for PS, which means that it is going to be a monomaterial bond. 🙂

In reply to: V4 Adhesives

helper
22/02/2019 at 13:38
2

Test: Bond PP and HDPE with Hot melt adhesives

Objective: Bond PP and HDPE with adhesives

Material: PP and HDPE

Tools: Clamps, drill, luggage scale, glue hot gun, adhesives

Adhesives used:
EVA (Ethylene vinyl acetate) based:

Bühnen A20364.1
https://www.aplica.dk/webshop/wp-content/uploads/1970/01/A0364.1e.pdf

Bühnen A213325.1

Acylate based :

Bühnen J2169
https://teippijaliima.fi/wp-content/uploads/sites/215/2018/09/J1619e.pdf

Process

To cut pieces of PP and HDPE with a size of 100mm x 20mm x 20mm.
To clean the surfaces with IPA(Isopropyl Alcohol) and Scotch Brite to remove the vaseline, demoulding product or different dirty stuff.
With the glue hot gun melt the adhesive and to extend the glue on a surface of 20mm x 20mm and clamp two pieces. Leave them curating for 24h to be sure that all of the bonds are totally curated (this process should be done at around 20ºC, if the temperature is lower it is going to take more time, each 8ºC the timing of curating becomes double than the specifications).
To test the strength of the bond, clamping one part of the piece and pulling from the other side with the luggage scale (to know how many kilograms it can support).
This is a rough experiment since we have not perfect bonded surfaces and material for a proper experiment. It is mainly for knowing which one is better as a comparative.

Conclusions

For PP I would go for the A21325.1 and for HDPE for J2169 and A20364.1. This kind of process is only good for really quick applications, the time of curate it is only a few seconds, after that the pieces are completely bonded, so you will not have time for fixing the position of the pieces. This is also a cleaner solution than the other adhesives because you do not need to use the single-use syringe, which means less use of plastic (always better solution 🙂 )

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In reply to: V4 Adhesives

helper
22/02/2019 at 13:45
0

Test: Bond PP and HDPE with Methacrylate based adhesives

Objective: Bond PP and HDPE with adhesives

Material: PP and HDPE

Tools: Clamps, drill, luggage scale, adhesives

Adhesives used:

Wiko Multipower 03 (Methacrylate)
https://gluetec-group.com/sites/default/files/field/file/tdb/multi-power-black-tdb-en.pdf
Safety:
https://gluetec-group.com/sites/default/files/field/file/sdb/multi-power-black-hardener-sdb-en.pdf
https://gluetec-group.com/sites/default/files/field/file/sdb/multi-power-black-resin-sdb-en.pdf

Permabond TA4605 (Methacrylate)
https://www.permabond.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/TA4605_TDS.pdf

Weicon Plastic Bond (Methyl methacrylate)
https://www.weicon.de/media/pdf/77/89/17/TDS_10565024_EN_Plastic-Bond.pdf
Safety:
https://www.weicon.de/media/pdf/e4/13/a7/MSDS_105654_EN_EN_Plastic-Bond-Hardener.pdf
https://www.weicon.de/media/pdf/95/dc/3e/MSDS_105653_EN_EN_Plastic-Bond-Resin.pdf

Weicon RK7300 (Methyl methacrylate)
https://www.weicon.de/media/pdf/c6/fc/91/TDS_10569050_EN_Easy-Mix_RK-7300_Structural_Acrylic_Adhesive.pdf
Safety:
https://www.weicon.de/media/pdf/98/45/ba/MSDS_105692_EN_EN_RK-7300-Hardener.pdf
https://www.weicon.de/media/pdf/d8/04/74/MSDS_105691_EN_EN_RK-7300-Adhesive.pdf

Process

To cut pieces of PP and HDPE with a size of 100mm x 20mm x 20mm.
To clean the surfaces with IPA(Isopropyl Alcohol) and Scotch Brite to remove the vaseline, demoulding product or different dirty stuff.
To extend the adhesive in a surface of 20mm x 20mm and clamp two pieces. Leave them curating for 24h to be sure that all of the bonds are totally curated(this should be around 20ºC, if the temperature is lower it is going to take more time, each 8ºC the timing of curating becomes double than the specifications).
To test the strength of the bond, clamping one part of the piece and pulling from the other side with the luggage scale (to know how many kilograms it can support).This is a rough experiment since we have not perfect bonded surfaces and material for a proper experiment. It is mainly for knowing which one is better as a comparative.

Conclusions

Permabond TA4605 worked the best with PP and HDPE. After this one Weicon RK7300 worked also pretty well. Weicon Plastic Bond and Wilko Multipower 03 totally not recommended, they did not work at all.

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In reply to: V4 Adhesives

helper
22/02/2019 at 13:59
1

Test: Bond PP, HDPE, PS, wood and metal with EPS

Objective: Make an adhesive with EPS + D-Limonene

Material: EPS, D-Limonene, PP, HDPE, PS, wood, metal

Tools: Clamps, drill, luggage scale

Process

To put some D-Limonene in a close mug with EPS, leave them close and solving during 24h.
To cut pieces of PP, PS, HDPE, wood, metal. To clean the surfaces with IPA(Isopropyl Alcohol) and Scotch Brite to remove the vaseline, demoulding product or different dirty stuff, to sand the metal.
To extend the adhesive on the surface and clamp two pieces. Leave them curating for 24h to be sure that all of the bonds are totally curated, around 15ºC.
To test the strength of the bond, clamping one part of the piece and pulling from the other side with the luggage scale (to know how many kilograms it can support).

Conclusions

After the tests, I have realized that this kind of glue works very well for PS. Work a little bit for wood and metal, and it does not work at all for PP and HDPE.

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