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Warranty & liability template


This topic contains 8 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Anonymous 1 year ago.


Warranty & liability template

04/09/2019 at 10:42

Does somebody knows of procedures and documents we could use for the machines outside or inside the bazar ?

I am just asking because we had recently a user seemed to have enough expertise and so we skipped the the usual check and build – instructions together via whatsapp. He said the machine was working for a while but at the end he managed to burn out the motor- and amazingly 10 fuses. Unfortunately they refused the warranty process for the motor and other options, eg: more instant like paying him the half at least for a new motor but only we didn’t insist enough on the whatsapp session ..

Anyway, this happens once out of 1000 times (shipping damages) but apparently this kind of guys are not interested in solutions but instead start even smear campaigns, with all sort of half truths and wild accusations. Kind of hopeless.

To us as PP enthusiasts & machine builders – mostly operating in the gray due to many problems (ie: certification, real cost/numbers building those machines but also needed invests for development) such case can run quickly out of control.

I don’t know how to deal with that but looking for some legal binding documents before send this machines.

Any input and help is appreciated.

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04/09/2019 at 13:06

After checking the internet and other aspects, these things need to be explicitly mentioned in an agreement beforehand.

1. sufficient description, ie more pictures & details about the materials used, ie : wiring, absence of breakers, incompatible wire coloring code with the receiver’s regulations. compliance with the receiver’s counties regulations at all.

2. legal status of the vendor, needless to say but I guess around 80% of all vendors in PP can’t afford that. Invoicing would also add around 60% on top of the final prices, technically rendering this activity impossible.

3. transport, normally you have to open the package instantly and check it’s all ok, despite the shipping service does sometimes say : ‘delivered in good conditions’. This part seems to be the more crucial :

3.1 despite one would make pictures, videos of the machine working before shipping, it’s pretty hard to use this as evidence
3.2 it’s hard to say what happened when the machine got un-packaged or it received damages during the build-up

4. component warranty
– all our components come new and with warranty on it’s on own. I have no idea how this is being done but normally you bring the thing back in the shop so  certified stuff can go through inspection and replace the part or whole machine. In PP this seems pretty hard since mostly users receive this in another country and the involved fees for shipping can be higher than the actual price. In the recent case, the user said he’s sending it back to the company on it’s own but he’s doesn’t seem to be sure to which one and I know that my vendor would also insist on an inspection before doing anything. That’s pretty difficult especially with no-name brands for motors. Still, it’s hard to say what really happened and as PP vendor, you’re likely to pay, whatever the facts are – especially in case of blackmailing or difficult/hopeless negotiations.

5. machine warranty / disclaimer
No clue but in our case, the guy want’s to charge us now with everything he thinks he has to do, leaving us in a pretty much a pay or else situation. Insisting on a regular and certified inspection has been also refused.

6. Manuals
this seems to be the a suitable solution and should include :

6.1. checks to be done when receiving a machine
6.2 assembly instructions
6.3 basic tests to be done after assembling the machine; that also includes checking that grounding is coming from the main wall plug

This still of course doesn’t prevent financial damages for both parties but possibly this could make sure users don’t skip steps.

any other ideas or things I missed ?

10/09/2019 at 10:33

We progressed a little on the template.
This will be also used and extended in the upcoming ‘PP Open-Source Contribution Guides/Templates (components/machines/research)’.

In top of the usual suspects:

1. Shipping & packaging notices (un package early to see damages). For instance it should clear that some components also need corrosion protection. There is also often a shipping insurance but it has to be claimed early as possible.
2. Assembly guide
3. Test guide
4. Manual
5. Warranty information about the entire machine

we think it’s best to have a complete sheet per component with these attributes:
1. Name, short info
2. Limitation, quality & failure notices (heat-bands, sensors = consumables), also highlighting possible worst case scenarios. That also should incl. compliance information.
3. Source (where they have been ordered or where/how to get a replacement)
4. QA / testing report : tolerances, testing information, etc…
5. Warranty information (especially when self-made)
6. Links to youtube, forum, etc…
7. Manufacturing notices: how it was done
8. Safety information

If I missed it anything, let me know. There is btw. also general introduction text, trying to create a friendly atmosphere by pointing out the overall background of the manufacturing and the requirements & responsibilities for the user/purchaser (ie: we’re not a company, it’s not a pro machine, etc…).

Next update on this story : October.

thanks everybody 🙂

10/09/2019 at 14:04

Hey G I think we have to add in the Manufacturing Notices a specifications panel
like the attached pic

11/09/2019 at 19:23

Hey M,
you’re right. the specs! Fully forgot this. Thanks a lot !

11/09/2019 at 20:40

I guess one of the tricky parts is how to describe the capability so that performance expectations/limits are agreed to. For example what HDPE thickness? 2l soda bottles one at a time. etc. I was looking at the commercial shredders/granulators (for example: http://compactorsinc.com/granulators-fx700-series/ )and they avoid any performance specification other than Kg/hr. They expect the user to be experienced enough to choose the right size. The bazar customer may not have that experience and have unrealistic expectations.

11/09/2019 at 21:08

Yeah, nailed 🙂 That’s what we tell them up front : don’t expect too much. Still, some are disappointed and call us up because the shredder jams with the hopper full or a few handfuls of bottle caps. That’s where a good and precise auto-reverse comes in. The tests start next week and I am in good hope it’s yielding in more satisfaction since you can fill it up and leave the scene.
So yeah, a good point to make sheets for performance per KG per type (we have some in the wiki for the shredder).

This very subject is at a point i should highlight that there is no “make cool product button” – at least for now –  and also no “save the world” button – kinda it’s the power off switch for now 🙂

11/09/2019 at 22:35

Given all the video documentation PP is planning, a basic “here is what a V3 shredder can and can’t do” video would help. And here is what it can do with just a some simple plastic preparation.

25/09/2019 at 00:59

@s2019, video : we do one ! I think with all the addons we’ve found regarding ergonomic, comfort and pushing the limits – I think this part is covered.

Something else came up. I think we will add a simple extra attribute to the machines, ‘Completeness’. That’s because I noticed often I could keep spending 4 weeks on a single machine instead of the usual one week. However, here the options for this attribute :

1. Minimal, working. That’s the level of the machines I’ve seen most. Means also : technical expertise required for maintenance or broken parts.
2. Advanced. This variant includes complete electronics, diagrams, open source drawings and pretty much everything to get novice users started. This also includes some more safety and better ergonomic improvments.
3. Perfect. Nothing to add or take away. This adds addon-ons as adopters, manuals, tutorials and also a SLA like experience (service hotline).

Just an idea but that seems legit with most I’ve encountered on the dark side.

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