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why this high bazar fee ?

This topic contains 27 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Anonymous 8 months ago.

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Anonymous

why this high bazar fee ?

29/01/2019 at 23:09

Hi,
why is the bazar fee that high ?
On 500 you take 40 Euro.

That’s just 1/3 of the bazar fees you have to pay per month to pay to sharetribe, and it’s then 50% to put just your own bazar on a proper server, being also able to apply the long outstanding  needed PP adjustments.

Anyways, this insane high and unreasonable fee drove most of our clients (99%) to direct payments thus we also loose reviews, community, $$ for better parts, etc…

Creating such high profits for you seems quite odd to me. we don’t get analytics or needed fixes in return, we just fill your pocket and not much more than that, and I was not aware that precious plastic turned into a private enterprise, did it ?

Can someone explain this to me ? I understand that there is little effort involved,
and I am ok to pay something, but % is pretty inappropriate. It should be a fixed fee just. In return we can also see way more culture and community growing in the bazar, at least when it comes to machines though.

Btw. just to let you know : the average user is willing, or better said “able” to pay barely 500 Euro, increasing the bill by 40 Euro create obstacles for sellers and buyer, ending in direct sales. Also, don’t forget that Paypal takes another good cut, so we’re talking here high figures in % going to people who have pretty much nothing to do with the actual work involved. I’d like to highlight that most of people we had were on a tight budget and we adopted to this as best we could, leaving us with something like less 10 Euro the hour for the work. It’s really demotivating to see that a good portion is going to others when it’s us who have to do actual work involved: machine upgrades, etc… you’re cutting on the wrong end dudes !

I’d appreciate comments of other machinists who do selling in the bazar. here in Europe, the budgets of PP newcomers is really low. Only 20% can afford things beyond 2500Euro (pays multiple selfhosted sharetribe instances in once).

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starter
29/01/2019 at 23:10
1

@davehakkens : please check!

starter
29/01/2019 at 23:47
1

i’ve just made a wild guess. At peak times, the bazar is making possibly around 800-2000 Euro pure profit. That’s so much money to pay a guy who can do the needed fixes and adjustments in the bazar, like multi-language, on a self hosted instance. this would give us analytics and way better display, also we can have then chat and integrated CRM. I am highlighting analytics again because it would give so much insight what to produce, what to improve, …etc

Or, if you put the money back where it belongs : to the builders and purchasers, we could do a hell lot more quality for 40 euro alone on a 500 Euro average sale. Not to mention the flourishing effects on the entire PP community.

please do something, if you like i can forward you 6 months of emails providing you 1st hand evidence that this high fee has to go away
thanks

starter
30/01/2019 at 00:48
1

for anyone who doesn’t know :

PP is renting a service called Sharetribe which gives us the Bazar, it cost 160 Euro to rent it, see here. Sharetribe is kinda open-source, so you can host it your self on your own server which cost you about 50 Euro, and it’s going to be pretty powerful one which can also serve the forum, etc.. with ease! At the beginning, it takes a few days to setup and a couple of hours per month to maintain and update it. So currently, assuming there are enough volunteers (there are obviously), there is already a waste for the PP community of 100 Euro a month. 1200 Euro represents almost 6 shredder laser cuts…. or enough material to make 4 injection machines for free, or make some efforts to get hands on laser cut service on each continent, well, you get the idea. putting your(?) money where your mouth is makes pretty much sense in THIS very case.

peace,
g

warrior
30/01/2019 at 13:31
6

Guenther…?

warrior
30/01/2019 at 14:08
2

Maybe @jaklatt can help?

starter
30/01/2019 at 15:04
1

hey, after another sleep over that:

items with < 30 Euro = free!
items with > 50 < 100 Euro = 1 Euro bazar fee
items with > 200 Euro < 500 Euro = 5 Euro bazar fee
items with > 500 Euro < 1000 Euro = 10 Euro bazar fee
items with > 1000 Euro < 2000 Euro = 20 Euro bazar fee

with that we’re more than happy to make our deals (99%) in the bazar and I am pretty sure the other builders will drive do their sales also over the bazar which is in return way more income and community building than you have now.

ps: it doesn’t solve the other biggest problem : we have no configuration/options in the bazar but it’s possible as I saw in the bazar’s source code.

in peer to peer communities or social currencies there is little to no fees btw !

warrior
30/01/2019 at 15:17
1

this story might clear up a few things https://davehakkens.nl/preciousplastic/bazar-turns-one-heres-what-we-learned/

starter
30/01/2019 at 15:28
1

well, reading the page doesn’t solve anything! At the end us and more likely all other builders will make their deals outside of the Bazar which i consider bad for the whole story.

Can’t you just try at least to lower it to 2% and see what happens ? As said : we can do so much more with the 40 Euro you take on 500 Euros.

And hosting sharetibe isn’t a big deal, you take a 40 Euro per month root server (top notch specs!!!) and then plug sharetribe from a docker image and just saved 1500 Euro, and the best of it: the community can take care of the outstanding issues with sharetribe.

So the solutions are there; to me it seems you prefer to turn a blind eye again on such important things, it really doesn’t cost you much to improve things…

sad sad again

starter
30/01/2019 at 15:30
1

I am happy to pay the 40 Euro myself a month to host sharetribe, in return there are NO fees at all, for everyone!
g

starter
30/01/2019 at 16:01
1

the source code of the Bazar also unveils :

– it’s rarely updated = low maintenance!
– it’s written in react = easy to extend & integrate into the v4 platform as it’s also needed that way anyways
– all the issues of the page you’ve mentioned can be fixed soon
– we can add other features pretty quick

So I am really wondering why you complain about high fees for Sharetribe if it costs you literally nothing to make it for free for the entire community.

There is also enough skilled man-power within the community to get the Bazar to the next level, in relative short time.

So again, please do something, it’s all there !

helper
30/01/2019 at 16:26
1

Hello @cgoflyn ! Thanks for your interesting thoughts 🙂

First of all, you should remember that Precious Plastic charges a 5% fee for transactions made through paypal (you then pay the paypal processing fees which are 2.9% or greater depending on which currencies and being used) and 8% on transactions using stripe (because Precious Plastic covers all processing fees).

You can see a longer explanation of this here: https://hakkens.github.io/precious-plastic-bazar/Sell/#fees

 

I think the way that many people look at this in the community is that the fees are a way for the community to give back to Precious Plastic for always sharing everything open source online for free and providing the service of hosting and managing the Bazar.

starter
30/01/2019 at 16:39
1

but you don’t seem to see the bitter reality coming with this kinda lazy decision:

– 99% sales outside of the bazar
– no free bazar whilst it doesn’t cost you much to make it for free, instead you prefer to waste 1500$ euro the year and make it harder for people getting into PP with inappropriate fees
– lower quality builds, given the budget of PP machine purchasers

so, to me that are all excuses, and pretty silly ones. PP received so much money and spents on stuff which is not important or just not needed. sad to see that PP headquarter takes the route of a private enterprise. needless to say but v4 is overdue since a year, v3 didn’t got single community update, the missing infrastructure changes MAY arrive by the end of the year, and worst : it just doesn’t fix the problems we have TODAY!

this is unbelievable and insane too! You can make it for free and easier for everyone and you just don’t want and walk away with our $$

you should be all fired!

starter
30/01/2019 at 16:57
1

Nonetheless: my offer remains, tell me your Paypal address, I am sending you the needed 40 *12  Euro in advance for a dedicated Bazar server, plus a Readme how to it setup the Bazar per docker image and this nonsense can stop here and now for everyone 🙂

starter
30/01/2019 at 22:09
1

so at the end it’s a profit driven private enterprise, no transparency, no real community based decisions, vertical, and not the slightest little effort to fix things where they needed urgently, respect @davehakkens ! how do you sleep at night, throwing all the hard earned $$ out of the window which has been brought to you by the community, not you per-se btw.

even profit oriented organizations understand the basics : all free for the community first! And all you come up with are bogus and just NOT true & lazy reasons!

that’s a real shame and upsetting to see for me, we’ve could have been so much further in the last 10 months, and what’s on the horizon with v4 doesn’t seem to fix things at all:

– machines remain the same, more expensive, complex and more heavy to build though
– bazar : no updates & and unnecessary ripp-off remains in place
– no fixes for v3

that are the most 3 important pillars of the whole project and you do nothing about, respect !

worst even, your majesty disappears in some hippy land by the end of the year, wtf.

starter
30/01/2019 at 22:49
1

@jacklatt

I think the way that many people look at this in the community is that the fees are a way for the community to give back to Precious Plastic for always sharing everything open source online for free and providing the service of hosting and managing the Bazar.

yeah, how long we have to pay back to DaveHakkens one-time work ? He just uploaded the ouput of a year work or so, updated it a few times. He got paid more than enough for this. It’s time to invest back into those who made this all possible : the community, not him.

and seriously, stop telling people this bs that hosting the bazar & a this slow WordPress site cost a fortune, so much that we have to drop near 10% of our work, forever! It’s a shameful lie just! a server to host all is 50 Euro just! You set it up once and forget about it. The community brought him 300k, it’s peanuts to pay this little IT 5 years in advance. I am happy to sponsor this as long we get what it’s needed: an efficient and community driven network, horizontal wherever possible

He should have stepped away since long already and understand that PP is not his pet project anymore. There are so many people here who put 100% into it, I didn’t see a single addition by the PP headquarter in the last 10 months, not a single community update, just nada, well yeah : more fragmentation in other things but that’s it.

Funny, always those with the biggest mouth, ie: ‘we change the world’ , ‘we are alternative’, … are usually the worst hippocrits, no idea how to do things right.

I will stop writing here about this again, I see now that this precious project is lost in the wrong hands.

warrior
01/02/2019 at 02:19
2

Dude, you just showed up to the party.  If you do not like the bazar, make you own one.

 

Nothing wrong with profit btw.  That is how we earn money to eat.

starter
01/02/2019 at 02:32
1

300 k earned on the communities shoulders is more than you could ever eat, first things first: boost the community, i’d say 150 k for making things easier and faster for everyone is an absolute must, obvious thing to do. we can have it so muc easier already next week.

as said,  I am happy to pay the bazar fees (self hosted) 5 years ahead, what’s wrong with making it FREE, for EVERYBODY ? PLEASE TELL ME , explain us why this can not happen, there is insane money available to do that.

sorry, but you must retarded, greedy, incompetent, arrogant or just one or of those those pretentious spoiled hippies, or just altogether to let this this happen to your community, period. and lies I spotted enough!

warrior
01/02/2019 at 02:53
2

So now you accuse me of the following?

Quote:

 

sorry, but you must retarded, greedy, incompetent, arrogant or just one or of those pretentious liars, or altogether to let this this happen to your community, period. and lies I spotted enough, all way long since the last year.

 

Unquote.

 

Ill tell ya what, Why don’t you come to the Philippines here and tell me that to my face?  Ill give you my home address.

 

You been here all of two weeks and you start bullying people around.

 

 

 

starter
01/02/2019 at 03:03
1

unfortunately, it’s a little far for me. skype – video will do I guess. you seem offended (why is that?), maybe it’s better that way 🙂

anyways, ripping off the community when it’s not needed indeed deserves a slap in the face, for 2-3 hours, at least 🙂

starter
01/02/2019 at 03:14
1

and no: i am long enough around (and will be at least for another 3 years, full time) to see there is really bad management, lots of waste, misdirection, fragmentation and plenty of other wrongdoing in place, since too long as i can see this in every little corner of the platform.

the purpose of this post was to clarify that we can have a community boost for free, for everyone involved (for real, you know), next week.

nothing offending, the incompetence is pretty clear and understandable, it just has to be fixed ASAP.

starter
02/02/2019 at 03:49
1

@davehakkens, so i checked our sheets : we’ve saved 300 Euros in Bazar fees, in the last 10 days just. I am very happy it didn’t went in your pockets which seem to have big holes btw. please check! The 300 Euro went straight back into machine development : lighter, cheaper, greener, basically all the things you don’t do at all.

Now if I managed to save 300 (that’s more than needed to pay sharetripe this unneeded fees) getting lost in your pockets, can you imaging what all other machine builders together could bring to table ?

It’s simple: if you are that greedy not to share your cut back into the community, why should we ?

starter
10/02/2019 at 22:49
1

@davehakkens, you still didn’t tell us why you don’t want free trade for the community ! We had 3 sales making you 150 Euro, 50 Euro still missing but we’re happy to send it to you as well. As we know you received 300k, easy to make the math with that.

Anyways, you said in the bazar fee article ‘its soo expensive’ but as we see after a few average sales you can pay this easily with a few sales, in very short time by the work done of the community, for you.

So please be lets straight – once in a while – please make the bazar for free, we sponsor the fees/server 12 months ahead. There is simply no excuse anymore to make it not free ! Understand this is as also way to put your $$ where your mouth is 🙂 – once in a while ….

For 150 we’d have loved to put more into the sold machines and we simply can’t because of you !

Also, you never showed us the books! We in fact don’t know where all the money goes and in pretty much any society there is at least some transparency in place, showing for what and how much tax is paid. In this community there is nothing about, far from that, things are rather kept in the dark and if it comes to concrete things such as expenses, invests, we see only this goofy explanations about the bazar being so expensive, whilst the truth is that it cost literally nothing…. It’s a plain lie, and you know it !

warrior
11/02/2019 at 00:15
1

Its this “high” because we want to keep on improving the bazar. Many features are lacking and we don’t like to run on external software. (So no ebay.) But development takes resources, a fukton, specially since we want to rebuild it from scratch so it can be fully integrated in the Precious Plastic network. A massive task, so that €150 of yours is a peanut (crucial peanut) considering what it takes to develop. But if you feel its not worth it, don’t want to support PP and all the work we done before and the entire community behind that does want to continue development. Go ahead. Start your own bazar, sell on Ebay find loopholes in the bazar to get it free. We don’t mind. Its your Karma. But don’t tell us what to do with our money. Have some trust in our long term decisions or go somewhere else

starter
11/02/2019 at 00:47
1

yeah, i simply don’t trust you at all 🙂 and how silly and childish is to say to go otherwise. i really didn’t expect much anyways. it’s pretty much your way, almost as karma 🙂

you seem to forget the more important : you are just dave hakkens, one of many here, nothing really to take into consideration when it comes to such important decisions like free trade.

so now you want to spent big bucks to reinvent some MANY LARGE wheels like a selling platform, as next a forum, and what not. You should have put this clearly into your bazar fee justification that our money is for helping you to build a software enterprise doing so many cool things, wow. Possibly you should get back at the keyboard from time to time too 🙂

anyway, it’s simply foolish to think you build what others did as teams over decades in a few years with so little, respect!

And for what after all, for a higher bazar fee then ?

No seriously, you should be released from such decisions, it make me cry just to know its in your hands.

The bazar can be selfhosted for less than 50.

starter
11/02/2019 at 00:52
1

show me what you improved in sharetibe’s version, really, then you admit you’re selfhosting it (50e), so you’re renting it (2000e) or not, weird….

starter
11/02/2019 at 01:18
1

so here you can read the more plausible explanation what’s going on here,
https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/

read the part about how the sociopath crowds enough clueless around him and kicks off the evil cycle of …

as said, in normal and healthy organizations, transparency and democracy is the key, or where is the boost in your bazar changes and contributions ? 🙂

starter
11/02/2019 at 01:36
1

i just did the math, more or less the bazar should have make easily 20k (more 40+) in profits in total. for 20k (or lets say 5k) i would have expected this here as the entry level humanity saver contribution:

– crypto, social currencies,
– ban paypal, ban middle mans
– all of the worst pains and damages to fixed in the bazar, …

instead there was just nothing ! don’t tell you wouldn’t fiddle the bazar control interface for free, mister so generous of you

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