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In reply to: Greetings to you all

14/12/2018 at 04:58

Thats pitty Jon, but understandable. But the garage is a good place to start for a lot of us. Farm offer is still open, in the meanwhile I’m putting some trees in the corners of the land( Walnut, oak, ash etc ) for future use.

03/12/2018 at 01:07

I initially joined here since I admired the ideas of a low impact (no footprint) and sustainable living ProjectKamp. When so many enthusiastic people joining a new project, great things can happen. But over the weekend I was thinking about some of the above posts and started to feel that something isn’t quiet right here.

I mean, if you really want less footprints, why occupying a large area in the country side and create more buildings on it?

Nature thrives best in areas where humans are not present. Wherever we go or settle, we do have an impact. This is a major concern, since our occupation of the countryside is resulting in more loss of natural habitat all the time. There are plenty of these so-called ecovillages, probably mostly build with the best intentions, but in reality they are just another form of human settlement in areas that used to be nature or farmland. This has in reality very little to do with sustainability, regardless of the recycled wood or ecofriendly bricks used to build it.

If food needs to be provided and no footprint should be left, a truly sustainable farm would be a great idea. But such a farm is more like an organism in itself, blending in with its natural surroundings. It takes many years to develop a successful farm. But it doesn’t need lots of buildings, machines, solar panels, workspaces, windmills, sewer systems and lots of road (as in the initial picture) to provide food. But maybe ProjectKamp isn’t really so much about a sustainable and ecofriendly farm, is it?

Sorry for the rant so far, I’ll try to make my point now. If ProjectKamp is about little footprint, community, recycling and being truly sustainable, maybe it would be best suited in a place that has been taken from nature already, an old factory, office or other empty property. This way you can provide place for all the projects you want, without having to worry too much about the effect of your own presence in nature or permit limitations for your community building(s). As for your food, urban farming really needs new innovative projects. Your robotarm could assist to water and harvest for example. And recycling of nutrients and water in a closed integrated growing system is really about a sustainable future that we have to explore. Your machines, windmills, solar panels, plastic bricks will blend in much better in such area compared to the (Portuguese?) country side. If you really want to pave the way for others, then please don’t start by paving more nature.

01/12/2018 at 14:37

Portugal is certainly a popular destination among permaculturists (see ).  Nice advantage is that you’ll be able to grow a much wider variety of crops and fruits compared to the north, if you have an area with milder winters.

Lots in Castelo Branco seem to go for very low prices, you can probably even find better deals when you browse the area in person and talk with the locals.
Maybe around Monsanto, if namepicking is of any importance:)

Just like anywhere else, building permits are required for all area’s, and might even need you to meet certain style-needs to ensure you blend in with the area. Again, you’ll need to check that locally, in the town hall.

Maybe the most effective way to approach this, is to make a clear plan and present that to the municipalities of your choice, preferably done by or with a local. I can imagine that some underdeveloped area’s would welcome a Kamp plan, to stimulate local activity, maybe they can even help you to find a good place…

28/11/2018 at 16:15

This is what current recycling co’s are using to compress the material.

Baling – Balers use hydraulic ram to compact EPS waste either vertically (from above) or horizontally (from the sides).  The resulting bales are tied with a strap or twine to keep them together and for easier handling and transport.
Cold compaction – The volume of EPS is reduced without using heat.  EPS waste is fed to a pre-breaker where it is broken into flakes of roughly 1 to 2 inches in size.  Using an auger or screw compactor, it is then compacted hydraulically into “logs” or blocks, achieving a reduction in volume of up to 98%.  The compacted polystyrene can be broken into size or transformed into pellets.
Thermal densification – Thermal densifiers such as StyromeltTM use heat to melt EPS and liberate trapped gases. The melted resin is then allowed to cool into briquettes or strands.  This process achieves a greater compaction rate than most hydraulic compactors and results to a product that is sterile.  There is, however, the issue of the release of vapours in the workplace and the smell created once EPS is heated. Most manufacturers resolve this by installing air filters on the equipment.


Another technique, as they are doing with wall isolation , is to inject the uncompressed eps with a glue under high pressure. You could do this also in a closed mall to make thick sheets or maybe shapes of the uncompressed eps pearls. That could be reused again to isolate houses.

27/11/2018 at 23:34

Yes, you certainly have a point. Although a good (lease)contract will protect the Kamp members , I certainly cannot predict what future owners would do when I’m no longer around.

Maybe full ownership is better suited for some, but it might also slow you down a bit to start. When you take an agricultural lot nearby for example, it will not be so easy to split that up into separate titles, nor can they be used to create private space (like housing) on the land itself, as illustrated in the example you gave. Existing lots often have a very clear distinction between the “living” and agricultural area, but you can probably split up the “living” area into privately owned spaces. But that will be a limited space in most cases, not including stables and other existing agricultural buildings.

Another issue might be the price itself, if you look around for agricultural land (7.50 per m2) with option to build housing and/or existing housing, you’ll need to bring 400-500.000 in the area around Eindhoven, and thats only for a lot with 1-2 hectares on average.  So the 80.000 budget is just enough for 1 hectare, without any permanent building.

Also, in case a lot is found, how do you foresee it will be bought, a Kamp foundation (stichting)? Maybe that gives you another option to organize ownership.

As for the farm on offer, I hope it will one day finds it own community of enthusiasts that have a more open look towards ownership and sharing, till that time I’ll plant some more trees and let the horses enjoy the grass:)

27/11/2018 at 14:40

Thats a nice way to run Bitraf, thanks for sharing. Its a great way to organize a creative joined process. Its a real eye opener.

But when you copy this to a Kamp idea, you’ll run into some issues maybe, since a sustainable community will need to produce some output to survive (food, energy, waste management) . Kamp produce will be based on basic community needs, not sure if that is something you leave to the individual participant only to decide, like in Bitraf. You might end up eating only brusselsprouts a lot:)

I once helped with a sustainable farming project in Palawan , Philippines, where we got some piglets to help recycling the leftovers. One day I came back from fishing and couldn’t find the piglets anymore. Turnout that some of the building crew had gotten very hungry. So probably you also need some rules.

26/11/2018 at 16:39

Interesting points. But what happens if you take “owning” out of the equation? After all when Kamp is run by a community of like minded souls it will be more about “sharing”. This way you’ll have a more socialistic underlying principle.

Capital, goods, tools, resources, and even time spend in the Kamp, can be used in such a way that it is based on a fair way of sharing. For example, if you work on the fields, you should be entitled to your share of food, shelter and so on.  Or when an expensive tool is needed, it can be shared by its owner as well, Maybe in return for some apples:)


The more is shared, the less feudalistic or capitalistic the Kamp will be running in my opinion. As for the Kamp location itself, I made another post offering to share an old farm, it has 1 hectare of land. I don’t need it, so I can share it. If the bright yellow van arrives I will make some space on the land for parking.

26/11/2018 at 04:53

I’m offering a rundown old farm, Belgium with approx 10.000m2 of land around, currently grassland with some trees *nuts, apple, poplars , organic . All material in place can be somehow reused (oak and larix woods, rooftiles and so on) , place has deep water source and lower portions function as water reservoirs, forest is near.
It has all infrastructure around,  but not a busy area, some 40 minutes from Eindhoven. I’m willing to offer this for this project to start, and some extra’s on the side if needed (tractor, tools, equip etc) .

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