Forum Replies Created
i’m sometimes imagineering at the crossroads of non destructive plastic upcycling and o.a improved sanitation (the knock on potential can be huge)… question;-
-have you considered collecting/upcycling urine @ the PP project?
(no pun intended 😉
thanks for sharing your wits buddy – from my experience in spain empty houses tend to be “ruinas” and although they look attractive you usually cant get a (re)building permit the last i heard – and noticed enough desparados willing to rip off an unsuspecting potential buyer who hasnt done their homework 😉
interestingly, some of the vacant houses/ruinas in the almeria area are even said to date from the civil war era
the info about the taberna’s desert being the only real desert in europe is actually sourced from the Andalucian government – please let me know if that info isnt correct (however,from experience seeing is believing 😉
If you have any constructive input or links regarding permaculture projects…please do feel free to share
maybe also of general (educational) interest is this idylically located project in spain http://www.sunseed.org.uk/blogs/
this area is the only true desert in europe…..mindblowing nature,geology & history
…and the most honest tapas on the iberian peninsula – YUM!
Thanks for the positive reaction guys – long live evolution…i would have trouble just remembering 40 peoples names – so hats off there already
unfortunately i missed a visit to PP during DDW (but got a speeding ticket racing back from berlin to catch the last hours if intention counts for anything ;(
we still have find back the land details (it was a while back) but have good foto’s and film i could show when i drop by …by coincidence i’l be attending a seminar today in veghel called “future of plastics” – so if its convenient for you guys it would suit me well to drop by afterwards later today (and btw – it might also be possible for one of your dutch speaking members to make a last minute attendance by mailing [email protected]…just in case 😉
i dont have any info about your address/opening hours – so if you have a link or info its also possible to mail me on [email protected]
looking forward to dropping by – and your culinary curiosity is highly valued ! 😉
Hi Dave & PP’ers,
a few qs, random thoughts & ideas…just in case ;-
-location within 1 hour (e)bike ride from a (surf) beach?
(do the guys at “langbrett” know of the kamp project ?..theyre experienced portugal visitors – build surfboards there,and may have some insider tips)
-search for an area where there’s possible collaboration with a local authority or NGO to cooperate with a (marine) research/ ecological remediation project?(portimao estuary?)
-set up a voluntary behavioural modification programme (plastic separation) for the explosively growing “baby boomers driving white fridges” generation…a “plaslovian” no’s 1 to 7 training to help leave the coast cleaner than when they found it….and you know, vacuum clean the beaches and stuff – we’re paying their pensions right ? 😉
-in order to explore challenges and create solutions for global problems( if that was the core intention of KAMP ?) – could it be interesting to make a priority of conducting experiments in the most arid region available to develop relevant low water agriculture,pumping technology (reinder tijens revisited rope pump) and storage solutions? …it could also have potential knock on synergy to share pragmatic,potentially life changing developments with local portugese minorities from african descent and their increasingly climate challenged ancestors (eg. cape verde)
who knows, – there may even be support on an institutional/eu level for constructive cross pollinating initiatives?
-could it also be an interesting option for diversity to have a (smaller?) property in 2 very different locations instead of one large? (environmental zone/geographical & surf types 😉
btw, i made an offer on a property a couple of years ago that probably would be a dream for you guys – 10 min drive to praia la rocha, permit to build with water well,6.5 hectare with several valleys ( real surface area probably 9 hectares), 75 metre height difference(great for solar pumped storage water/power),small forest with big trees, upper lake & upper/lower vehicle access & parking – have fotos/video somewhere….its probably sold now – but who knows (asking was 65,000)
-last but not least what ownership or share model are you looking at?
i may be able to recommend a very experienced,creative co-operatie expert if thats still a grey area
i missed out on the DDW open days at PP, so if it works out i’d like to drop by your workshop in eindhoven sometime soon and; 1.share a plastics related book for feedback (true story) ..i’m trying to promote it
2.share a few pragmatic non destructive plastics upcycling concepts
3.show off a sample of killer vegan kebabs ….for culinary feedback from vexperts
4.bring a new buddy along to show him planet PP and maybe further discuss a faster way of paying for seeing eye dogs than….collecting plastic milk bottle caps (its very sweet but takes 11 million bottle caps per dog)…just by chance he’s also a brilliant blind designer called simon dogger …no pun intended 😉
btw – i’m also wondering how blind people could experience touching and identifying different plastic types due to their potentially more sensitive tactile abilities…like, do they feel material related differences that seeing people dont see in essentially similar daily household routines?
i live about 45 mins from eindhoven and if its appropriate would like to combine a visit soon with other local errands and eventually share a few ideas/insights & plastic related prototypes for feedback (and a few jaded superchoc recipes 😉
Terry (old nokia type)
PS. in case you guys have a plastics solution idea in the closet – maybe check out Dhruv’s december “plastic hackathon” supported by a vacuum cleaner inventor ( who knows – maybe they also like KAMPing or know someone with a lazy plot somewhere on the algarve? )
yeah…rodents arent dumb huh dude…ours seem to be suckers for peanut butter
and do they eat the mycofoam?
i looked into The xyllo stuff a few years ago – but lost interest when i discovered it still needs periodic maintainance …but havent looked since
By comparison – what would properly detailed wooden construction do if left untreated? (referring to the old adage “dry wood doesnt rot” )
Discovered this startup from den haag at DDW developing construction related mycelium – http://www.fungalogic.nl/wordpress/
spoke with head researcher Joost,very smart and enthusiastic young guy – they seem open to relevant experiments
and good luck with the vermin 😉
interesting point on the rodents – thanks.
after keeping a keen eye on the mediamatic gallery roof insulation project…unless i missed something it seemed to dissipate.
Eric is a very interesting guy and i had the luck of literally bumping into him recently.
i had contact with Eben (ecov..) about 6 years ago with his thoughts on the bioengineering suitability of “fungocellulose composite” for building applications….he didnt really seem to have any practical insight into the topic(but found it interesting all the same)…thats why i’m a little surprised he has so agressively patented what is essentially a natural process (“i found it on a log while walking in the woods”)
The mind boggles…was the log ever consulted 😉
patents can be both very expensive or misleading when you dig a bit deeper;
-what geographical locations does it cover?
-are the patents provisional? (ie cant be changed = cheap patent & less coverage, ie one slight change declares the patent null and void – P.patents are sometimes used for bluffing other developers or PR posturing/fake credibility generation for what can turn out to be placebos)
-Last but not least….is a patent really valid if the holder doesnt fully understand the process or have expertise to put it into practice?
i by no means seek to degrade the great work ecovative are doing, but do hope he respects this discipline enough to allow others to help develop its potential.
Did you know its illegal to capture,store and drink rainwater if you have a water utility connection in some states of the US?
Ps – i’m “logging” out now if you’ll pardon the pun 😉
Hi Robb – thanks for sharing, as far as i know two of the most advanced developers of mycofoam are Ecovative (USA) and Krown-design (eric van klarenbeek is i believe the most noted pioneer developing this material in holland – if not beyond)
My own interest in mycofam (besides yummy meals) is the potential suitability for construction purposes,however, there seems to be little consensus or deeper research as yet into the behaviour and practical application in this context.
issues needing further attention would be IMO ;
-shrinkage and dimensional stability (during the different phases)
-moisture related behaviour (tranmission & accumulation )
-weather resistance/finishing options
-long term durability regarding the above (understanding degradation catalysts)
Interesting concept Marrieja – reward based participation
any thought s on ;
-checks,balances and value definitions (& potential hierarchies ?)
-individual rights for selectively participation once “locked into the system”
-time duration of project? (land availability)
-noise pollution from trains (or present soil pollution?)
-how about opening a vitamin rich bio-organic lunch delivery service for “binnenhof” attendees… to enhance their challenged cognitieve abilities?
-building an atomic bunker to protect local pro NATO warmongering regime politicians? (oh wait – sorry – that one just slipped out…just ignore 😉
here are some tokenised/reward based energy/waste projects you may or not have heard about,just google;
-“de jouliette” – spectral.energy
It sounds like an interesting opportunity to develop a portable (“tiny” house)
interconnected microgrid experiment utilising pragmatic,integrated solar and optimised fossil (or bio) fueled power systems….lets say the type one would use to run a festival 😉
Sun oriented,low water vertical (container)gardens also deserve more attention in my humble opinion – check out the work sometime of the legendary professor Willem van cotthem (evt add words “desertification” or “container gardening” )
have fun with that 😉
ok imuh …..lets clear up some (mutual?) assumptions
– i didnt direct you (or anyone else for that matter) to “blindly” put food contact plastics all together, besides it being an insult to all the blind fans supporting precious plastics, i perhaps mistakingly assumed that the well informed precious plastics community already sorts plastics into colour and known 1 – 6 polymers. No?
– the multilayer stuff you refer to would then be a no.7 No?
– read my rule of thumb no. 3 once more…and let it sink in using what you already know 😉
– PP with talc? ; – the 80% figure came from a polymer specialist & mineral supplier at a recent expo/conference.(i have no reason to doubt his info)
talc also appears to be an excellent filler to increase liquid barrier properties.
one use of high talc PP appears to be washing machine parts – there was a dutch circular economy recycling initiative focussed on this recently.
-carbon black; – i thought it was a powder so dont quite understand how 2 layers of hdpe with a separate layer of CB can qualify as a hdpe monomaterial.
the milkbottle (uht milk?) sounds pretty dumb…but luckily some well informed folks are beavering away at solving the multilayer phenomenon – https://www.seariousbusiness.com/innovation-projects/packaging/
…and just by chance Imuh, the folks in your own home country have just decided to ban plastics in school canteens.
– and just to balance the “black plastic is evil”sentiment, – yes it does suck when sorting machines cant see it and it contaminates the recyclate, but if used pragmatically black plastic can be a very useful asset (think of solar absorbers)
the answer is being well informed & then…
in case you’re wondering I’m not an expert Imuh – just an amiable transient with a busy schedule 😉
good luck with your research.
ps. from an asthetic perspective that dumb milkbottle looks kinda psychadelic – a famous dutch footballer once said “every disadvantage can have its advantage”…
like art creating awareness?
while you’re all waiting for the elusive piece of prime real estate to appear….i can highly recommend y’all getting to know the work of this old professor hero of mine – https://desertification.wordpress.com/2013/01/23/bottle-towers-eng-tours-de-bouteilles-fr-willem-van-cotthem/
-seeds,sun and some good ole fun lovin trash 😉
its never too late to start (…or early for that matter)
there are now more than 5000 plastic recipes and growing…
eg. a purpose developed PP can have more than 80% talc filling (which, for its specific application could be a good thing – contrary to common logic, although sometimes its just to save money on polymer)
in my opinion a common rule of thumb is to start with known knowns;
1. if you know its food contact plastic put it on the left.
2. if you aint sure put it on the right
3. then proceed sorting as accurately as possible
4. if you want to make a food utensil…try to make sure its food contact quality plastic to start with (especially for greasy food)
ps. if you dont know right from left dont worry – get creative … you’ll think of something 😉
to reduce plastic waste we need to change consumption models and packaging design – i.e less plastic/more reusable packaging …but keeping LCA as the guiding factor.
waste is a total system design & lifestyle problem.
if i may rephrase your dilemma anne – i’d probably say “giving rewards for better separation and collection leads to more quality recycling” there.fixed.
Not as easy as it may sound, but heres an example of an interesting grassroots neighbourhood initiative in amsterdam using a plastic token system with participating local businesseshttps://wastedlab.nl/en/#introduction.
not sure if they are still operating-possibly due to a partial reliance on subsidie
hi quentin – my names terry from ho land and i saw your gutter shout out…yes the world really needs more gutters! (water retention is one of my many favourite upcycling topics, besides subsoil irrigation)
i’ve looked into both the organic/plastic composite possibilities (usually called “WPC’s or wood plastic composites) and the moss development topics …purely by coincidence.
Moss often prefers a somewhat acidic substrate – so pretreat any organic additives to the plastic mix accordingly and get a goed insight into exactly which types of moss you might want to use first.(maybe you know this already 😉
WPC’s are actually a very promising material with up to 70% plastic replacement but have been plagued with mould sensitivity and required biocidal treatment of the organic fibres,however, it seems a totally biocide free treatment has been developed very recently.
WPC’s also seem to have an improved recycling quality profile due to their lower temperature requirements during extrusion.less heat = better longterm quality.
if its of any help – i initiated a very small experiment with a kind belgian professor from VKC last year using lysozyme treated cellulose fibre (thats a fancy name for grass that has been ruminated and “extruded” out of a bulls ass – yes its just washed bullshit fibre – i also have some water buffalo fibre i’d like to test some time due to its more agressive stomach enzyme which could enhance lifespan 😉
no shit…i even took a foto of the bull…as one does.
i think the professor might find your project interesting as a concept because she was looking for new applications for WPC materials along with diverse other stakeholders i met at an industry brainstorm session in belgium.
another potential lower PH WPC fibre additive i’ve looked at is acetylated wood sawdust – although it might be a little coarse and may need extra milling or grading for a clean extrusion.
just by coincidence – ive been planning to visit the director of a company specialized in this to ask about this specific topic and share an old sample (accoya in arnhem)
accoya wood has a garantee of 50 years above ground and 25 years submerged.
seems like the perfect match for WPC to me.
ok, sorry if its getting a little long now but something else came to mind;
Forbo the linoleum company were also looking for upcycling applications for their “jutepluis” waste – these are the grindings from the back of the linoleum and look/feel very similar to woodflour – they sponsored a project at DDW a couple of years ago and i got a very constructive reaction when talking with the sustainability guy – maybe they are still open to innovations, and i think the fine consistency of the material could be compatible with extrusion.
ok last idea – basalt wool growing medium (rockwool)…120,000 tonnes of this are disposed of every year in holland and basalt seems to be a happy substrate for moss (slightly acidic?) – i just know this because its one of the upcycling material themes i’ve looked into.
i’m sure you could add up to 80% into the plastic mix…but the basalt fibres could be very abrasive.maybe someone needs to try it to find out 😉
google images basalt/moss – you’ll get the idea
thats probably enough geeking out for now quentin – if you have any specific questions you can also mail me [email protected]
ps. 6 september is a presentation & discussions hosted by a biophillic inspired architect/engineer at the VIBA association in den bosch (“vereniging integrated bio-logische architechtuur”)
by coincidence i’m a member and dont know if i have time to attend – but i think your concept, vision and attendance would be welcomed by the old pro’s there.